SoLaR sTaRtEr ALL-IN-ONE BoX...

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

 

First I'd like to say please give me some good creative criticism... as far as I know this hasn't been done....

In these pictures you will see My solar panels and setup.
They are large pictures you should be able to click the picture to zoom in on the Imageshack website.

If you want more in depth pictures I will gladly take some more!

Parts List-------

2 60w Lavie Solar Panels - http://www.laviesolar.com/pro_show.asp?id=44
Igloo MAX cold 150qt cooler - http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=188761
Blue Sea Battery Switch - http://bluesea.com/category/1/products/9001e
Blue Sea 3 position switch panel with 15amp fuses - http://bluesea.com/category/5/20/products/8054
Turnigy Watt Meter and Power Analyzer - http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10080
Phoenix Contact 24v Power Supply - http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=2090022
Xantrex C40 Charge controller - http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/72/p/252/pt/25/product.asp
Xantrex Prosine 1800watt 24vdc inverter (hardwire) - http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/10/p/1/pt/7/product.asp
Kill-A-Watt Powerstrip - http://www.p3international.com/products/consumer/p4320.html
Bussman 50 and 150amp DC Breakers - http://www.powerwerx.com/fuse-holders-fuses/resettable-circuit-breaker-cooper-bussmann.html
4 12v Energizer 29HM 125AH Batteries - Sams Club Special 















You can see how I've vented the box, I chose to suck instead of push the hydrogen out of the cooler, as you can see it's just a 24v computer fan that I mounted in an ammo box outside.

My Blue Sea switch panel has 3 switches, one is for the fan, another is for the solar panels, and the other is for my backup 24v power supply and it will do 28.9vdc at 10 amps (perfect for me)

I built this system to be very mobile (except the panels) 2 guys can easily take this anywhere and have 250ah at 24v ready to go!

This is just the beginning folks... I'd like to just put this in the garage and go with over 2kw of solar and grid tied with the new Midnite Solar Classic (HURRY UP!)

I have a drop cord that goes to the Kill-A-Watt power strip that then goes to all of my basement recepticals, it's nice to see just how much power stuff uses! I have only had this installed for 1 week and haven't been able to test it very well, and yes I know I need more SOLAR!!!  and not Lavie (junk a$$) solar panels.. horrible customer service as well... so far I'm finding SOLARBLVD.com to be a cheap site for solar... if anyone knows any great deals going on let me know 

That's about it for now I think....

 

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

Forgot.... The main Battery disconnect is an Anderson Plug (inside cooler), and on the front the big RED Blue Sea disconnect switch will switch the battery to connect to charge controller (selection 1), Inverter (selection 2), or 1&2 for both.

p.s. I have learned a lot from this guy http://www.youtube.com/user/OBXSOLWIND ....He has some great videos!

[dnix71]

Beautiful setup. But not really portable. That battery box weighes 250 pounds? about. That's the real downside of lead acid battery storage. Your amp-hour rating is spot-on.
That's about 70% discharge, which is safe.

Just leave the lid on the cooler cracked open a bit and the fumes dissipate pretty well.

I need to get me one of those watt meters. That's half the price of a Doc Wattson.

Yeah, you could probably double your panels and have a nice balanced system. Use the excess power during the day and cut back at night and you wouldn't stress your batteries too much.

What loads do you have?

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

Did you zoom in on the pictures?

Yeah, it is very heavy, but 2 guys can move this around if needed, I can slide it on the floor easy enough myself.

I'm not even sure exactly what the AH on these batteries are as they are not true deep cycle batteries, I've searched and found around 125AH a piece. The sticker says 210min reserve capacity and I believe that is at a 25amp draw (through searching)

I don't need to leave the cooler top open, as I have the vent fan, (2nd picture shows the vent if you zoom in) I just open up the drain valve where you normally let the water out of your melting ice when it's keeping your beer cold...   and I put the vent hose on the opposite and highest point in the cooler, I shoved a bit of foam in the drain valve as well so I can keep the inside nice and clean.

The watt meter is very neat, I'm happy with it, I think it says it will do 130 amps... but with 10awg wire I don't see that happening. There is a seller on Ebay, that is where I got mine.  Type in the Turnigy watt meter in Youtube, and you will see how accurate it is.

My loads would consist of 22watts continuous (mystery standby load from entertainment center) when that entertainment center is on it will be pulling around 750 watts (without the sub), I couldn't leave that on long lol, other wise just some beer lights in the pool table room, bench grinder, soldering iron, Dewalt radio, just misc tools and such. I am not in the basement much to really use this system, but hey you gotta start somewhere, I think I did a pretty good job of over powering my system, and buying good stuff now, not oh sh!t i need this now and have to sell something then go buy something else. I really like the Prosine 1800, I've checked the sine wave and it is more stable than the grid, I think my electronics will like it, plus it's 24v not 12v(why would you even make a 12v 1800w)

[ghurd]

The battery vent fan is running 24/7, or

The batteries, pretty much, only gas above a certain voltage.
Could turn the fan on only when the batteries pass that voltage.  There are probably 100 ways to do it, but RCPilot used my controller so that's the one I can remember.
More info in his story,
http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,127224.0.html

Edit to add this, which is probably more rela- "vent"   
http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,129163.0.html

G-

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

The fan is on one of my switches (and they actually had a sticker for a Fan, I was excited)

 Ghurd your the guy I need constructive criticism from!  

I'd like to make my fan come on using a photocell... You wouldn't happen to have made something like this would you?

Also I've put a Ferrite core around the + battery wire leaving the charge controller, if one were to put any more (or if I even needed this one) where would you put them?

[TomW]

sr windtech;

When I only had solar I just had my vent fan hooked to the panels on the panel side of my blocking diode.

Only needs venting while charging and it only charges when the panels have voltage. Seemed the easiest way.

Tom

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

Very true, but... when you go under the voltage rating on the motor from what I've learned is worse than over voltage, so when the sun starts to go down......

I think ghurd's link is a very good idea but I'd like to go off sunlight to turn on and off the fan not voltage like you would from a solar panel.... (yes both ways is voltage but I think it's a bit different what I mean) It is still morning yet... maybe I'll have another cup of coffee and re read this... I may be way off....

EDIT: I suppose you could hook Ghurds controller up like in the first link ghurd gave (I see he edited it and now has a 2nd link), and just have it on the incoming solar power not the battery side..

[ghurd]

Not sure about the ferrite core.
You really want to get it off of there when the Classic or other MPPT goes into the system.
Not sure if it will screw with the C40, but it could.

I run muffin fans undervoltage all the time.  A 12V will usually stay running with 5V, but takes maybe ~6.5V to start turning.
Usually, when the PVs drop below 8V at night, they fall really fast after that.
Could do up a simple circuit to monitor the PV voltage before the controller which would pretty much give full voltage to the fan.
G-

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

Remember this is a 24v system.....

Thanks Ghurd, I'll be placing an order soon  !

I've since learned that a ferrite core may work to reduce RF... but you need to put it over both the + and - together, it helps to cancel the RF out. So mine is doing nothing, and I don't seem to have any interference with my Radio so I'll just take it off. I do have ferrite cores on all of my surge protectors in the house... cheap insurance I guess

[ghurd]

24V?  Double all my numbers.

C40 PWM only runs at about 140Hz, IIRC.
MPPT will run a Lot faster, and the computer in the MPPT can get confused if anything 'extra' is changing values.

"I suppose you could hook Ghurds controller up like in the first link ghurd gave (I see he edited it and now has a 2nd link), and just have it on the incoming solar power not the battery side"
That would not be a good idea.  With my circuit, RCpilot's set up is about the best way to do it.

The simple circuit to run the fan based on the PV voltage would be cheaper and easier.  Less parts.
G-

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

What I said... "I suppose you could hook Ghurds controller up like in the first link ghurd gave (I see he edited it and now has a 2nd link), and just have it on the incoming solar power not the battery side"

What you said "That would not be a good idea.  With my circuit, RCpilot's set up is about the best way to do it. The simple circuit to run the fan based on the PV voltage would be cheaper and easier.  Less parts."

I'm lost..... I want to have the fan run based on the PV Side of the charge controller not the battery side of the charge controller (I'd think that on the battery side I may get that 140hz into my fan, maybe not tho).... I suppose I could put the fan on battery power and then set the turn off value to the float voltage of 26.5v, as around 25.5v would be fully charged and after the surface charge on the battery was gone (long enough to quit bubbling) the fan would shut off.... Does that sound right?

If so, I'd love for you to tell me what I need to purchase from you to do this, PM me 

[ghurd]

"I want to have the fan run based on the PV Side of the charge controller not the battery side of the charge controller"
Meaning my dump control circuit would not be a great idea for that.

If based on the battery voltage, then the dump control circuit would great.  Plus batteries gas above a certain voltage, mostly.

If based on the PV voltage, a functional circuit would be simpler than a dump load control circuit.  Like 2 transistors and 3 resistors?  I did not really think it through.

Be advised anything on the PV side is going to change when the controller is changed to MPPT.
I would advise against connecting anything to the PV side of a MPPT controller.

"(I'd think that on the battery side I may get that 140hz into my fan, maybe not tho)"
The battery should absorb the 140Hz like a giant cap.  At least for practical purposes.

Shoot me an email.  It is going to require custom sketches.
G-

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

What happens with an MPPT that you can't have anything on the PV side?

For now I'm thinking that taking it from the PV side will work out best for what I'm trying to do, sure I could just hook the fan directly up to the PV and have 8 volts going to my fan and it sitting there twitching, but for longevity of the fan I'd like to use a circuit to accomplish the on and off voltages to the fan. I hope it is as easy as you say, electronics is a hobby I haven't yet started.

Also if I do decide to get my power from the batteries.  Can I get the battery power from the battery terminals inside my charge controller, and will the batteries still absorb the 140hz or should I take the power from right at the battery terminals?

I guess all in all the circuit should be able to work on either PV or Battery as long as I would have a wide enough range to input my settings. 25v-30v probably

I have another problem... I have my watt meter wired up to be powered from the PV and same problem, when the PV puts out less than 5-6v the screen goes blank but the backlight is still on... I'm sure this isn't good for it, that's why it too is on a switch so I can shut that off at night and without the watt meter on the PV will not be connected to the charge controller, the watt meter can be ran off 60v so if I can somehow hook it to the batteries, but I have to have the negative from the PV going through the watt meter so not sure if I could run a positive from the batteries to the watt meter and have it work right....  oh how fun start up projects are 

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

clarification post:

When the sun comes up I don't want my fan to turn on until 25v it will then put fresh air in the cooler before it goes into charging, then when the bulk charging is over and it goes into float my PV voltage will go very high sometimes over 40v and I don't want 40v going to my fan so I would then want the circuit to shut the fan off at 30v to protect it, then if it goes back into bulk it will bring the PV voltage back down to less than 30v and the fan will again turn on. Now you may be thinking... what about equalizing the batteries... the fan wouldn't be on.... That's why I would still use my Fan switch as a bypass of the circuit to make the fan stay on no matter what, and personally I will always be near by while equalizing, I don't let the C40 do it automatically every 30 days like you can do.

Hopefully this helps.....

Sorry I can't just make this easy and go off battery voltage....  

[ghurd]

"When the sun comes up I don't want my fan to turn on until 25v it will then put fresh air in the cooler before it goes into charging"
That ignores Mr. Kirchhoff.

It may go all day without the PVs reaching 25V.

PWM will have many spikes past 40V, even before the battery is actually 'full'.

Best take the signal and power from the battery.
G-

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

If it goes all day without reaching 25v then what do I care if the fan is on... the batteries aren't charging either so I would have no use for the fan to be on.., I'm just giving close approximate numbers... I may do something like a 26.5v to turn on, but I want the circuit to be able to go down to 25 if needed

Now on the other side of this... if PWM will go up to 40v even during charging on the PV side.... I'm now learning something new... I haven't physically seen this happen yet, maybe it does it very fast, if so wouldn't a decent sized capacitor help this? and if it's some random spike and the fan turns off for a split second... I'm ok with that, I've never seen either of my meters say anything above 30v while charging, or could we possibly put a voltage regulator in the circuit to keep it around 24v all the time but set it to turn on and off at the voltages I request....

Orrrr am I going to have to learn electronics 

[ghurd]

Low batteries will be charging with the PVs below 25V.
The 12V system at the shop goes weeks without the PVs being close to 12.2V.   
That just means we are using more than we are making, and the batteries are low.

The 40+V spikes happen at 140Hz.
Could probably use a diode and cap on the PV side to measure it, but it would be about the open circuit PV voltage - 0.6V for the diode.

Hanging a cap on the PV side, without the diode, will cause huge current spikes to the battery, which can blow up the fets in the controller.

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

Yeah... Your right sorry 25 would be a bad number, but hows 24v sound..... I would personally never let my system get that low.... if I did... remember I always have my bypass switch...

Your makin' this hard on me Ghurd 

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

I have another problem... I have my watt meter wired up to be powered from the PV and same problem, when the PV puts out less than 5-6v the screen goes blank but the backlight is still on... I'm sure this isn't good for it, that's why it too is on a switch so I can shut that off at night and without the watt meter on the PV will not be connected to the charge controller, the watt meter can be ran off 60v so if I can somehow hook it to the batteries, but I have to have the negative from the PV going through the watt meter so not sure if I could run a positive from the batteries to the watt meter and have it work right....  oh how fun start up projects are 

Anyone know what to do... How do you have your Doc Wattson's hooked up or other watt meters?

[hydrosun]

For low cost solar panels it's hard to beat sunelec.com prices. They have non-UL listed panels by pallets at $1.74/watt. UL listed at about $2.28/watt. 
 Customer communication isn't great, I've got best info from email to west coast warehouse in Phoenix. Shipping can be expensive in small quantities. Pallet loads by truck keep the price per panel lower.
Chris

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=3120_watt_kaneka_grid_tie_system

Anybody use Keneka panels? This is crazy cheap!

[ghurd]

http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=3120_watt_kaneka_grid_tie_system

Anybody use Keneka panels? This is crazy cheap!

They are an unusual voltage, and thin film.  Not exactly a common or desirable configuration.

No idea about the requirements of the watt meter.
G-

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

Unusual voltage is fine for me, as this would be a grid-tie no battery setup... One good thing about these panels is that heat doesn't effect them like other solar panels, the only down side is that I need more mounts and will cover more space, but in theory the shade these will provide my roof may help in keeping my house cooler in the summer...

For the cost per sq. ft. of roof space I'd say this may not be what most people would want, but I have a rather large south facing roof and I would be ok with 52 of these panels on it... maybe.... lol haven't measured anything yet..

[ghurd]

Be careful about stuff claimed by the people selling an item.

Might search here for "thin film" or "amorphous".

I'd rather buy it and have it last 40 years than buy a cheap one that lasts for maybe 3~5~7 years.

That shading stuff is mostly BS.  It depends on how the shade is falling on the PV.
I can make it look good.
I can make it look bad.
Take your pick, and I can make a video showing which is good or evil.
Twisting results is easy, even in a video, even under identical conditions.
G-

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

Very True... So many options, so many scams.... it's hard to weed through this stuff..... So many people have been screwed, another reason I'm on this forum, to see what NOT TO DO!

And by far in the few months I've been here You seem to be "THE GUY"

Thanks Ghurd... I will go searching and searching for a good deal without getting screwed in the end...

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

First I'd like to say please give me some good creative criticism... as far as I know this hasn't been done....

 

http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,134967.0.html

Wooferhound beat me to the cooler.....

[Sr WiNdTeCh]

well...... The city claims they need to do an electrical inspection of this, I said well it's not tied to the grid in any way, I'm just using it to charge batteries... they didn't budge, not sure if I'm right or they are right but in the end I took the solar panel down and now have a lot of money in parts sitting around doing nothing... about once a month I put the batteries on a charger and check water levels...


 

[harley1782000]

Sir windtech, Do what I did. I fought the system.  I won too. check out my story in the "PUB"  It's called Nobody wants them.

[ghurd]

"The city claims they need to do an electrical inspection of this"
So what?
Let them.

Electrical inspection of an off-grid system will mostly be about simple stuff.
Fuses and disconnects?
Maybe they will want a different type of wire outdoors, or maybe a ground rod?
Non grid tied and low voltage is exempt from most stuff (most places / I think), unless the inspector is a bit overzealous.

Not a lot of electrical difference between your system and a solar LED yard light, except scale?
Not a lot of electrical difference between your system and a HF 45W kit or 2 on an RV?

Might want to avoid connecting complicated magical battery DRAINING things like inverters until later.

He may even have a couple good suggestions.
Play nice, within reason.  Do Not want to get the dude PO-ed.
G-

[pmurf1]

I'm with Ghurd, fight it. Your set up is no more unsafe than the panel on my RV, and if done right can be a PR nightmare for them, especially in todays greener world. Sometimes people just need to be put in check, your situation sounds like a perfect example of someone being unreasonable. I recently went through it with an overzealous HOA, lawyered up and made my point. Luckily in Arizona, no one can mess with a solar installation, it's protected by state law, as it should be in every state IMO. You might be surprised how much a phone call or letter to the mayor, state rep, senator, and local news channels will make people not want to deal with you. I'm a big believer in the squeeky wheel theory.

[TomW]

"The city claims they need to do an electrical inspection of this"
So what?
Let them.

Electrical inspection of an off-grid system will mostly be about simple stuff.
Fuses and disconnects?
Maybe they will want a different type of wire outdoors, or maybe a ground rod?
Non grid tied and low voltage is exempt from most stuff (most places / I think), unless the inspector is a bit overzealous.

Not a lot of electrical difference between your system and a solar LED yard light, except scale?
Not a lot of electrical difference between your system and a HF 45W kit or 2 on an RV?

Might want to avoid connecting complicated magical battery DRAINING things like inverters until later.

He may even have a couple good suggestions.
Play nice, within reason.  Do Not want to get the dude PO-ed.
G-

As much as I dislike agreeing with Glen on anything, I do on this!

Especially the bit about items that will use the power. Just keep them on the shelf. Especially if it is a non UL cheap inverter.

Do have fusing and a disconnect between the batteries and charge sources. On or close to the battery bank! An enclosure or cover for the batteries be good [with a vent].

If they reject it get a list of the reasons

Shouldn't be too big a deal unless it looks like my first system, of course. 

Good Luck with it.

Tom

[Volvo farmer]

If the city did something like this to me, they would have the fight of their life over it.

What exactly would be the penalty for telling the inspector to pound sand? Is the city going to put out the sun? My guess would be that they have no legal enforcement penalties for something like you have built here.  Around these parts, inspectors, surveyors, and census takers are often mistaken for trespassers and are treated as such.