Author Topic: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.  (Read 250031 times)

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birdhouse

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #330 on: April 26, 2012, 01:43:16 PM »
this might be worth a read....  it shows how to have a gin pole that isn't permanent and simplification of the guy wire system compared to your drawing. 

http://production-images.webapeel.com/bergey/assets/2012/2/16/98787/TILT_1k_tower_installation_v5_1_2012.pdf

adam

Steadfast

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #331 on: April 26, 2012, 03:09:13 PM »
alright steadfast, you finally not looking like an idiot!   ;)
adam

Well THATS a reliefe,
At least I don't LOOK LIKE one... 
At least not anymore...  ???

Gee...
Had I actually KNOWN what a Gin pole was, BEFORE the brow beating,
then the "Idiot" lable might have stuck...

It is simple to point out a mistake, it is much harder to offer advice that prevents one.

Im trying to be possitive here, but you guys are making this a real challenge.
.
.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 05:11:47 PM by Steadfast »
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tanner0441

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #332 on: April 26, 2012, 04:35:25 PM »
Hi

Before you pat yourself too fast on the back.... If you had researched your project before you started on it you would have known what a gin pole was and you may not have a bent winch anchor.  You still haven't told us how many guy wires your using, on a 30ft tower 3 could do the job.  You haven't told us what the spacing is for the guys, or what the guy anchors are and how deep they are or your soil/ground type is, and I don't recall what blades you are going to use.  Remember, you have control how lightweight your setup is. What you don't have is control over the wind that's going to blow on it, and it only takes one good gust to take out your turbine and your shed it's tied to.  There are no end of postings on here from people who found out the hard way.

There is only about six inches between a pat on the back and a kick up the a$$.

Brian.

fabricator

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #333 on: April 26, 2012, 04:44:09 PM »
Every wind project featured on otherpower.com, at some point shows a tower raising with a gin pole, there are also illustrations of gin poles in the Dans book, go to youtube and search for raising a tower with a gin pole and you'll get a bunch of hits.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #334 on: April 26, 2012, 04:56:39 PM »
-You still haven't told us how many guy wires your using, on a 30ft tower 3 could do the job.
I am using three 1/2" thick cables...
 
-You haven't told us what the spacing is for the guys, or what the guy anchors are and how deep they are or your soil/ground type is, and I don't recall what blades you are going to use.  Brian.
At around 30ft up, near the top my mast,
I am anchoring 1 of them into my winch base.
I  am anchoring 2 of them around and into two (1.5ft thick) live trees about 6.5 ft off the ground.
At 10 ft up, I am also anchoring my mast into the side of my shed as well.

Blades:
5ft span Falcon blades
I may also try 7ft span fiberglass blades


« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 05:02:20 PM by Steadfast »
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sean_ork

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #335 on: April 26, 2012, 05:00:42 PM »
WHAT DIAMETER IS THE MAST ?

yes i was shouting

Steadfast

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #336 on: April 26, 2012, 05:07:07 PM »
WHAT DIAMETER IS THE MAST ?

yes i was shouting
I wrote about this several times before:   :-\
You know, there are 13 whole pages to this string... 

(sigh)  ::)
1 3/4" wide,1/4" thick
with a second set of 1.5" wide 1/4 thick pipes inside (and staggered) down the entire length of the other.
.
.
.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 05:13:31 PM by Steadfast »
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sean_ork

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #337 on: April 26, 2012, 05:20:54 PM »
WHAT DIAMETER IS THE MAST ?

yes i was shouting
I wrote about this several times before:   :-\
You know, there are 13 whole pages to this string... 

(sigh)  ::)
1 3/4" wide,1/4" thick
with a second set of 1.5" wide 1/4 thick pipes inside (and staggered) down the entire length of the other.
.
.
.

we have bigger holding up a line of beans here

fabricator

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #338 on: April 26, 2012, 05:22:18 PM »
1.75" OD would be 1.5" schedule 40 water pipe, it's not 1/4" wall or your 1 1/4" id schedule 40 wouldn't fit inside it, schedule 40 wall thickness is right around .14.
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Bruce S

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #339 on: April 26, 2012, 05:55:06 PM »
WHAT DIAMETER IS THE MAST ?

yes i was shouting
I wrote about this several times before:   :-\
You know, there are 13 whole pages to this string... 

(sigh)  ::)
1 3/4" wide,1/4" thick
with a second set of 1.5" wide 1/4 thick pipes inside (and staggered) down the entire length of the other.
.
.
.

we have bigger holding up a line of beans here
Sean_oak;
 First I'll say this and I'm being kind here.
DO NOT SHOUT!!!
I do not know you, you are a newbie and he's going through and answering questions a lot of people are throwing at him.
Shout again like that, Even if you're trying to be helpful and I delete your post  >:(
Period.
NO shouting is necessary.
Others on here who has been giving him advise are not shouting.
Only warning.
Bruce S
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

sean_ork

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #340 on: April 26, 2012, 05:57:24 PM »
it would appear that the only way to get his attention is to shout - it's folks lives and well being he is playing with

sorry for shouting thou

Bruce S

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #341 on: April 26, 2012, 06:13:21 PM »
We know and understand, but the shouting part gets everyone ire pretty quick.
and he's learning and listening, if he wasn't, most here would not put in the time to help.
Thanks for understanding.
Cheers;
Bruce S

A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

Steadfast

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #342 on: April 26, 2012, 06:31:40 PM »
I just blew yet another $50 at lowes on black pipe...   :(

God... I am sooooo sick of throwing money at this thing....  >:(
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tanner0441

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #343 on: April 26, 2012, 06:36:56 PM »
Hi

Is there no one in easy driving distance you could go and look at a set up like your trying to do. All the explanations in the world don't compare to going and looking and touching something.

I don't think you appreciate the basic (leave physics out) mechanics of what you are trying to do, you now have 14 pages of folk on here trying to correct and explane how you go about things.  Answer this, what forces act on your gin pole when the mast starts to lift, ie. is it under tension or compression, or some other force?

I can't comment on the section of your mast because I don't know the US specs, but with diameter goes resistance to bending.  Only a page or so ago you saw a photograph of a gin pole setup. A large diameter tube over a slightly smaller diameter inside it. Right at the bottom of the mast, the weight of the mast is shared over a large surface, with yours you have the bolt you use as a pivot under a small surface with very high shearing forces. You say your tube is inch and a three quarters, allow for clearance between the mast and the ground braces, if the ground braces are a quarter thick, add the washer you show the nut is never going to reach the locking section.

Brian


fabricator

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #344 on: April 26, 2012, 06:55:54 PM »
I just blew yet another $50 at lowes on black pipe...   :(

God... I am sooooo sick of throwing money at this thing....  >:(

ROTFLMAO!!! Sorry pard but you aint seen nothin yet, especially when you have to go shopping for another super delco, that guy is not gonna sell you one and have it totally exposed on this thread, so you better start looking.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
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DanB

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #345 on: April 26, 2012, 09:18:14 PM »
I have a *lot* of thoughts about tilt up towers lately.  They are tricky and dangerous and almost impossible to engineer in my opinion - the forces involved are very complex.  The 'experts' fail frequently ~ I have seen, and read stories about very expensive installations that failed (And these were pretty 'pro' jobs').

I'll write about this sometime soon I hope.

Steadfast... one comment... yyou said '3 half inch cables'.  I'd say you need 4 - I would never dare to tilt up a tower that only has 3 guy wires.  If you doubt me, I'd suggest you build a small 'scale model' and see how it goes.
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

fabricator

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #346 on: April 26, 2012, 09:46:19 PM »
And yet every major tower maker has tilt up tower options and there are thousands all over the globe, if done right a tilt up tower is no more prone to failure than a tower that was set by a crane, Rohn, the gold standard in towers makes tilt up towers.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

birdhouse

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #347 on: April 27, 2012, 01:26:55 AM »
Quote
It is simple to point out a mistake, it is much harder to offer advice that prevents one.

i think was directed at me because of my "idiot" comment. 

steadfast, i've given you TONS of FREE information to try to help you harvest watts from the wind. 

have you read the bergy manual i posted for you? 

i think you've bought your horse before the carrage a few times. 

there is such a thing as research.  i did a bunch of it before i dabbled in wind. 

even youtube research (which isn't really research) can teach a person a lot! 

i'm really excited to see the "non" results from the super xr plus turbo lightning, no thunderstorm, no hurricane, yea that's it... curved magnet delco junk!

sorry, had to put a little jab in there. 

i really do hope your turbine works out well, and puts out the watts, and it may.   it's also really hard to be behind ya when you've gone against almost everything that others and i have ever offered. 

adam

Steadfast

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #348 on: April 27, 2012, 05:57:32 AM »
 :) yes... out of ignorance I have lept before I looked. The horse and the cart and all that...
and I have paid for it in lost money and time...

However... your statement is incorrect on many levels.
first... what I said was not aimed at you specifically.
You guys know much. But your also generally impatient, and even hostile at times.
You are my "multitude of counselors" which means I listen to what you suggest, ignore the nevitive nay saying BS and how you guys suggest it, and weigh your advice collectively before I apply it.  You see you guys live and work in heavy winds with heavy rigs... I am neither...and must scale down... This is a major reason I am weighing out your advice. You are also wrong that I have not taken your advice. I have made MANY changes because of it. I need your help and continue to value and desire it.  I am just growing tired of having to constantly smooth you folks ruffled feathers while having to in turn take your negitive attitudes and rude comments. And the word "your" is meant to be collective not individual.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 06:31:19 AM by Steadfast »
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #349 on: April 27, 2012, 06:03:33 AM »
Fortunately for this project and for educational purposes others watching my mistakes and successes, I have a very thick skin...  many others exposed to the general hostile teaching style here. would have left already... not me I am sticking it out... I am nicknamed "Steadfast" for a reason...
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

fabricator

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #350 on: April 27, 2012, 08:38:05 AM »
It is not hostile, it is exasperation, you stated you did some research, then basically did everything wrong, so folks here offer constructive advice, folks who have already been there and done that, collectively thousands of times.
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DamonHD

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #351 on: April 27, 2012, 10:39:11 AM »
Well, I see both sides of this: it does *look* hostile, when you walk into a club of experienced people and at least apparently ignore lots of the advice aimed at saving life and limb and cash.  Like poking a wasp's nest to see if your new theory that you can't be stung is right...

So, Steadfast, I really would urge you to take the slightly grouchy but sterling advice in the spirit offered.  As fabricator said, there are thousands of slightly scary man-hours / person-hours / small-furry-creature-from-Alpha-Centuri-hours of experience bound up in those comments.

If you want less grouchiness then please try to make us understand that you really do understand at least the safety risks that you are taking.  Then we can grind you down about the other aspects ... oh, we already did.  B^>

Rgds

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thingamajigger

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #352 on: April 27, 2012, 10:40:07 AM »
@steadfast
Quote
I just blew yet another $50 at lowes on black pipe...   :(
God... I am sooooo sick of throwing money at this thing....  >:(

Been there done that, lol, the funny thing is you don't have to spend all that money because you do have options, this is your machine not theirs. I know many people like to "follow" but I was never that way, I put my 1kw turbine on a 15' freestanding ABS tower which is all wrong, I wired my PM generator wrong and the flux paths of the magnets wasn't right because it wasn't the way everyone else does it. I made my own blades out of the wrong materials and people would say they would never last --- but they have and my turbine which all the self proclaimed experts here would agree is all wrong still makes it's 1Kw in every 20mph wind which comes around.

I think there is a great deal of satisfaction when one creates something unique with their own two hands. I have worked in a 260Mw power plant and laid my head against a 10,000 HP gas turbine at full power and listened, I have laid my hands on an AC generator the size of your house and felt it's awe inspiring power but there is no satisfaction in this it is simply a machine. Yet every single time I hear the familiar woop-woop-woop of my hand built, home made, originally designed wind turbines I feel good. They may not be the best or the most efficient or just like the ones everyone else builds but their mine, I built them and they generate power as well as anything else.

As well I have spent years studying the works of the greatest men in electrodynamics, Faraday, Ampere, hertz, Maxwell, Tesla, Steinmetz, Einstein and Feynman. I have built countless generators of every kind and one would think I have forgotten more than most here will ever know and yet I am still completely awestruck every single time a magnet moves past a simple coil and it lights up a simple LED. I would suggest to the experts here that if they do not still get this feeling they are doing something wrong, they have lost something along the way and suggest they find it. Any fool can repeat what they have read or seen and it is no more difficult to understand than when a monkey hits a big red button and receives a peanut for their effort however it is not so easy for a man to stand on his own two feet and think for themselves. To follow a dream nobody believes, to create something original and unique and state this is mine, I built this with these two hands and it is like nothing else. I do not think we need more sheep, we have plenty, we need more wolves.

“In order to be an immaculate member of a flock of sheep, one must above all be a sheep oneself.” -- Albert Einstein

I'm not usually one to give advice but if I did I would say do your research, research every aspect of what you need to know, then ignore it and do your own thing. The research is simply information or knowledge but it is not understanding and when you do understand in a context which applies directly to you in your own way then you will have no need for books or advice from others.

Regards

sean_ork

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #353 on: April 27, 2012, 11:23:51 AM »

I'm not usually one to give advice but if I did I would say do your research, research every aspect of what you need to know, then ignore it and do your own thing.

you might not have seen the images in this thread - shows someone doing his own thing ''before'' any research has been done

hence the fuss about the dangerous state

fabricator

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #354 on: April 27, 2012, 11:36:23 AM »
They may not be the best or the most efficient or just like the ones everyone else builds but their mine, I built them and they generate power as well as anything else.
Regards

The part before the comma contradicts the part after the comma, and I know of at least one home builder that would throw a machine on the scrap heap if it only did 1kw in a 20 mph wind.
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RP

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #355 on: April 27, 2012, 11:56:46 AM »
slightly grouchy

I've been following this too and it's more than slightly grouchy.  The guy really does have thick skin apparently.  He came here to discuss what he's doing and there's been no end of snotty comments. 

For instance:  Enough with the Delco alternator comments.  I think it's been several pages since Steadfast has mentioned it.  Leave it alone already.

Those of you wanting to help please keep doing it but quit complaining about it.  I know there are times when I fail to immediately agree with someone that knows more than me.  It doesn't always mean I'm an idiot or that I don't care about safety.  Sometimes it means I don't understand yet or the explanation I was given doesn't have any context for me.

It looks like Steadfast didn't know what a gin pole was at first and he may not fully understand how to make concrete strong.  Instead of saying he should do his research, how about just explaining it or pointing out where he could learn about it.  If you don't have the time or inclination to tailor your help to the person that needs it then you could save some additional energy by not complaining when the person either doesn't get it or wants to try something their way just to see it done.

I was amazed that Chris Olson stayed on here after the way he was treated at first and he's turned into one of the contributors that I follow most. 
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 12:05:26 PM by RP »

CraigM

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #356 on: April 27, 2012, 11:57:41 AM »
Fourteen pages of not only the right way but also the wrong way to do things. I've learned much in this classic struggle of the why and … why not?

In this arena research trumps trial and error.

CM
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birdhouse

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #357 on: April 27, 2012, 12:07:47 PM »
steadfast-
i'm glad you have thick skin.  we can be a bit rough around the edges...  no question about that. 

so some real constructive criticism:

your tower pipe is very thin, so guy wires are going to be your friend.  with your size tower/machine ect.  3/16" will be plenty.  ebay was the cheapest i found 3/16" when i was shopping around.  i'd use a total of 8 guys.  two sets of four.  first set should attach to the tower about as high as you can get them yet still leaving a foot of clearance for the blades.  second set should be halfway between the top set and the ground. 

this should give you ~14' of unsupported tower between guys. 

even the gin pole should have two of its own guys to keep it from pulling to one side or the other. 

you continue to mention that your site isn't all that windy, but i don't know of anyplace on earth that doesn't get REALLY windy from time to time.  if your not there during that time, your tower and turbine are going to be forced to fend for themselves.  THIS is why things have to be designed correctly and over built to an extent.  SAFETY FACTOR comes to mind. 

here's a video of my first tower raising with the machine on top.  not perfect, and some people being in places they shouldn't but you can clearly see the guy wires and even the guy wires on the gin pole. i chose to have the gin pole permanantly attached to the tower for ease and quick lowering/raising, but you can also design it where the gin can be removed after the tower is up.  much like in the bergy manual i posted for you which i really hope you read!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARgEb7CSDtw&list=UUabajWb3cDP2fzWZCO4x2Bw&index=5&feature=plcp

hope this helps you steadfast!

adam

Mary B

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #358 on: April 27, 2012, 03:29:14 PM »
He is getting a new design so best would be to wait and see if it actually performs or is a dog. Never know the guy could have came up with something to make the GM alternator actually make useable power.

spottrouble

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #359 on: April 27, 2012, 03:52:18 PM »
Hi Steadfast
I'm a newbie here too so I've just been reading and not posting. For the bolts at the bottom of the tower, I think you should put bushings in those to spread the load. Find tubing that fits over the bolt, drill mast tubing to outside diameter of that tubing (use the same holes you already drilled in mast tube), cut a section of the new tubing just wider than the pipe and weld it in. This will spread the load on the bolt your mast pivots on, do the same thing for the bolt above it.

Do you have a scrap yard or recycling center nearby? These are a treasure trove of parts for people that build things, I stop in everyday and just walk through looking for little treasures for my projects, its really amazing how much you can save over buying new.

Kristi

Steadfast

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #360 on: April 27, 2012, 04:42:28 PM »
here's a video of my first tower raising with the machine on top.  not perfect, and some people being in places they shouldn't but you can clearly see the guy wires and even the guy wires on the gin pole. i chose to have the gin pole permanantly attached to the tower for ease and quick lowering/raising, but you can also design it where the gin can be removed after the tower is up.  much like in the bergy manual i posted for you which i really hope you read!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARgEb7CSDtw&list=UUabajWb3cDP2fzWZCO4x2Bw&index=5&feature=plcp

hope this helps you steadfast!

adam
That is a very cool video... You sure made it a MASSIVE first try!
I have another stupid question, which I believe I already know the answer too...

How tight do these cables need to be?
I assume pretty darn tight... right?
But does "tight" mean tight enough for them to make a tone when plucked.
or do they have a little "play" in them for flexibility?
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #361 on: April 27, 2012, 04:46:39 PM »
Hi Steadfast
I'm a newbie here too so I've just been reading and not posting. For the bolts at the bottom of the tower, I think you should put bushings in those to spread the load. Find tubing that fits over the bolt, drill mast tubing to outside diameter of that tubing (use the same holes you already drilled in mast tube), cut a section of the new tubing just wider than the pipe and weld it in. This will spread the load on the bolt your mast pivots on, do the same thing for the bolt above it.

Do you have a scrap yard or recycling center nearby? These are a treasure trove of parts for people that build things, I stop in everyday and just walk through looking for little treasures for my projects, its really amazing how much you can save over buying new.

Kristi

an interesting Idea i might just try tomarrow.

Yes, I have an excellent scrap yard 10 miles away...BUT, because some MORON poked his toe, and then tried to sue them.  They not only, no longer let folks stroll through to go shopping, but they also no longer sell scrap steel to the general public...   

Now. I may have a thick skin...
But THIS SORT OF THING really gets me totally, out of control, insain, ANGRY  >:(  >:(  >:(
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 04:50:49 PM by Steadfast »
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

birdhouse

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Re: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #362 on: April 27, 2012, 05:00:45 PM »
steadfast-
i like my cables snug but not tight.  overtightening puts additional un needed stress on the tower.  they should be snug enough that the tower doesn't sway around in the wind though. 

i know it's kinda a vague answer, but it's a hard thing to desribe. 

also, keep in mind the wire will stretch some during the first month or so, giving the turnbuckles a twist or two will fix this quickly though!

adam