Author Topic: Datalogger  (Read 2718 times)

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DanielCV

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Datalogger
« on: April 22, 2011, 09:03:49 AM »
Hello,

any ideas if there is a (cheaper) alternative for logging:

-windspeed
-rotorspeed
-stator temp
-outside temp
-date and time

Should be battery-driven and stand alone with Memory card.

I found only this one: http://www.logicenergy.com/products/wind-logger/ but it´s very expensive...

Best regards,
Daniel

madlabs

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Re: Datalogger
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2011, 10:10:03 AM »
Daniel,

I don't know much about store bought stuff. In the DIY world what you want to do is pretty easy and cheap, but I don't know if you have any electronics or programming experience. I made on that is essentially doing all of that for les than $30. However, I already own all the tools and have done such projects before. If you want to jump into DIY, there are folks here including myself that would be happy to help, and every uC has a forum too.

Jonathan

DanielCV

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Re: Datalogger
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2011, 10:18:00 AM »
Hello Jonathan,

thanks very much for your suggestions. Sure I will try to do it myself. Only problem for me is that I life in Africa, so I have less possibilities to get materials, but sometimes I am able to order from USA or Europe.

So, could you suggest a link or do a small list of things I need ?

Here what I already have:

- Soldering tool
- Multimeter
- very basic electronic skills
- Temp Sensor KTY84-130 inside my stator touching one coil
- Temp Sensor KTY84-130 intended for outside temp measurement
- Vortex Anemometer from inspeed with logger set and software
- Turnigy Wattmeter

I forgot to say that I want to log also Ampere and Volts....


Any hints in which direction I should go - what I can do ?

Thanks in advance !
Daniel

ChrisOlson

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Re: Datalogger
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2011, 03:24:12 PM »
any ideas if there is a (cheaper) alternative for logging:

-windspeed
-rotorspeed
-stator temp
-outside temp
-date and time

Hi Daniel,

Sometimes I think you can log too much stuff that's not really useful information in the long run.  For instance, I don't feel logging turbine rpm is useful except for tuning a turbine for maximum performance, and once tuned it's useless information.  And also, logging instantaneous output is also pretty much useless information, again unless you're tuning a turbine to get maximum performance at a particular wind speed, or whatever.

For me, what's more useful in the long run is how many kWh the turbine makes and what the average wind speed was that it made that power at.  As an example, you can have a turbine that puts out 1,000 watts for 20 minutes during a storm, then only puts out 50 watts the rest of the day vs a machine that puts out 250 watts continuous for 24 hours.  The data from the machine that makes a continuous 250 watts all day is not nearly as exciting to analyze, but it made over 4x more power for the day to run your house than the one did that briefly spiked at 1,000 watts.

I've logged output data from my turbines for years using just a Doc Wattson meter with an external shunt and a recording anemometer that stores min, max and average wind speed with a date and time stamp for up to 6 months.  I enter the wind speed data and the amp-hours, kWh and peak amps from the Doc Wattson into a spreadsheet, then reset the meters.  The spreadsheet figures out how what the average watts/hr output of the turbine was, and the average system operating voltage, for the logging period, and graphs it.

I've used the long term output trends to tune my turbines and see what changes in adjustments make vs average wind speed, and to see what the difference is between various turbines I have flown as far as output vs wind speed.  As an example, my present turbine that powers my house developed its first megawatt-hour of power for the year, last week.  The 13 footer that it replaced did not make its first megawatt-hour of power until June 2 last year, and the average wind speed this year was .2 mph higher than it was last year.

It tells me all that with three simple tools - a good quality home weather station, a $59 kWh meter and a PC with Excel in it.  It's a pretty rudimentary and basic data logging system.  But it's pretty much maintenance free meaning I record the data when I happen to think about it, which is sometimes up to two weeks between entries in the spreadsheet.

So all I'm saying is that you can spend a lot of money on an elaborate data logger.  But a year from now, going back to April 22, 2011 and seeing that your turbine was running at 225 rpm at 2:00 PM doesn't really tell you much.  But seeing that it made 300 kWh for the month of April in 2011 at 12 mph average wind speed vs what you get next year at the same average wind speed after making some changes tells you a lot.
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Chris

DanielCV

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Re: Datalogger
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2011, 03:39:16 PM »
Hello Chris,

I agree with your statement, and sure I will log total kWhs all the time to see the daily, weekly, monthly and yearly results.

In my case however, apart from that which is really essential, I decided to measure specific / critical data, in different cirumstances and changing parameters, modifying my machine, to later beeing able to compare with expected / calculated values. I am planning to do a little more specific work for some ideas I am developing, so I really need to know what my wind turbine specific / critical data are at any time.

Best regards,
Daniel

ChrisOlson

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Re: Datalogger
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2011, 04:14:01 PM »
In my case however, apart from that which is really essential, I decided to measure specific / critical data, in different cirumstances and changing parameters, modifying my machine

Well, in that case I've never really seen any standalone systems that are cheap.  You could check out an APRS data logger, but be prepared to spend a substantial amount of cash on it:
http://www.aprsworld.com/wind2/

--
Chris

DanielCV

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Re: Datalogger
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2011, 04:30:58 PM »
Looks very nice !
But as you said may be much too expensive.  >:(

I am curious about the DIY possibilities madlabs spoke about...

ChrisOlson

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Re: Datalogger
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2011, 05:33:39 PM »
Looks very nice !
But as you said may be much too expensive.  >:(

I am curious about the DIY possibilities madlabs spoke about...

Well, I'd love to have one of those.  Seekscore here on the board has one and the data he has posted from it is very impressive.

When it comes to electronic stuff if I can't buy it I'm pretty much screwed.  I couldn't electronic design my way out of a paper bag if somebody pointed out where the hole is.  So if you come up with something that works keep us posted.
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Chris

Seekscore

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Re: Datalogger
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2011, 08:40:18 PM »
I've got the APRS World data logger. It does what you are wanting but it's not cheap. Mine hasn't missed a beat. I've been working on the software to display the data the last couple days and have it where I can import the .csv files. I've got some work yet to do to it. Here is a screen shot of what I've got so far.

Mike

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SparWeb

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Re: Datalogger
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2011, 01:58:07 AM »
Hello,
any ideas if there is a (cheaper) alternative for logging:

As cheap as you can go:

http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/PicLog.asp

I built this one, after learning a bit about the PIC controller chip first.  You don't need exotic parts, nor are many required.
The site has a forum where you can read about how people have built them, and ideas they've come up with, too.
The PIC controller is part of a large product line so you can add fancy bits like memory, LCD display, battery back-up, you name it.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

DanielCV

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Re: Datalogger
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2011, 06:19:58 AM »
Hello Seekscore,

I must say the data logged by you on the APRS look stunning - as I see it comes without software, so you developed a excel tool for displaying these curves, am I right ?
Also, besides the logger itself, which sensors are you using ?

Sparweb, thanks for this very interesting option, I will analyze this furthermore to see if I am able to do all the tasks I need to.
It seems very work intensive for somebody who is not very into electronics and software, but ok that´s the price I have to pay then...  :)


Seekscore

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Re: Datalogger
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2011, 08:55:30 AM »
I have the data logger, current shunt, anenometer and their WTSS board (wind turbine speed sensor?) for RPM. Thought about getting a wind vane and temperature sensor.

You can definitely display the plots using an excel like program. Takes some time to get set up. I wanted a program that you could just import your data and have it display. Above is a Java program that is much faster than excel. My spread sheets take a bit to load if I save them with the graphs. The logger saves the data at any programmed interval you want. I've been using 15 seconds because I think it helps smooth out the data by having more data points.

Its a work in progress for now.

Mike

DanielCV

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Re: Datalogger
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2011, 05:33:28 PM »
Hello,

I find the prices are ok for the starter kit. But the WTSS is definitely too expensive for what it is.. several resistors an dsome diodes and capacitors...

Wondering if I can build a WTSS myself from the photo ? Does it have elements on the backside also ?

Also, I want to use my KTY temp sensor... do´t know if it will be able to log with this logger ?

Best regards,
Daniel