Introducing myself with some newbie questions

[greenpilgrim]

Hello all.  My name is Mitzi and I live in Amarillo Tx. Avg wind speed taken from the weather service

is 12mph.  I think it's probably a high wind area because we get some pretty rough wild

winds here.  I'm very interested in wind as I've had messed up hair my whole life & I think it's time the

wind gave something back to me. Once the wind quit blowing here and we all fell down so I'm guessing

this is a high wind area.  

This is what I'm wanting and starting on the journey to educate myself, so I'm starting with a few

questions here.

1. My goal is to have a grid tied generator hoping to supply most of my electrical needs. We use a little

under 1000 kwh per month. I have no idea what size generator I will need. That need may go up a little as

we're phasing out our use of natural gas for water heating and cooking.

2. I think commercial generators are much too expensive for what they are.  It seems building my own

is the way to go, but I'm only beginning and may not know what I'm getting into.  I have a handy husband

and I'm pretty handy myself so I'm checking into it. Does anyone have any suggested reading for starters?

3. I'm interested in vawt generators as we are city dwellers. I haven't checked into the zoning yet, but I think

a very high tower will be out of the question, I'll let you know more when I find out. Are there any vawt designs

for high wind areas? I have a rather large backyard but not near an acre.

4. I've read that Texas requires the utility to provide net metering here.  Does anyone know how much it

costs with xcel energy to install the net meter & tie the generator into the grid?

any info will be helpful.  thanks and I hope to get to know you all on my journey. My husband doesn't type(keyboard) so you'll have to put up with me.

[TheCasualTraveler]

Wecome,

     Taking yourself 100% off grid with wind can be a huge undertaking, especially with the power you state. You will be advised to first conserve and lower your useage rather than add to it. You can get a LOT of advice and information from this site and others. If you are serious about following through on this, my advice is start organizing that information NOW. Bookmark everything you even think you might need later and organize them as best you can. Start a folder where you can collect math calculations, charts, etc.

     Once you've read through this site* click on the Otherpower logo on top of this page, go to the bottom of the next page and click on Links. Start at the top and read through the links. Don't miss WindStuffNow.com for Practical info on VAWT's.

     If you have a question, try to find the answer or at least a good bit of info on here before you post. If someone responds to your question, take some time to study the answer before reposting. If someone asks a question off the top of their head with out researching it, posters sometimes get cranky. OH, and when searching the forum, use Google search.

*no one alive has read completly thru this site, as it is packed with info but not always linked or organized. So again, bookmark and organize for yourself!

Good Luck,

[TomW]

Andy;

*no one alive has read completly thru this site,

I beg to differ. I believe I have & do read everything here. However, the search function sucks so bad that removing it would improve search results immensely.

Another example why blanket statements generally are false.

Just for the record.

TomW

[TheCasualTraveler]

     *no one alive has read completly thru this site,

I beg to differ. I believe I have & do read everything here.

Wow. I had no idea. Are you talking about the entire forum since inception plus everything on every Otherpower page and links? If anyone has it would be you and if so, I'm impressed!

[finnsawyer]

You need to refine a few things.  What is your energy use for each month and the yearly total?  Can you reduce it?  Do you have a windy season where wind power would work better?  That is, wind speeds above that 12 mph average during that period.  If the average just increases to 15 mph for a time there will be at least twice as much power available from the wind for that period.  You need an average wind speed profile over the course of a year.  And what about solar?  Here where I am at 47 degrees north latitude we get strong winds in the winter and good sun in the summer, so a hybrid system would make sense.  It might for you too.  But you would really want to match your yearly generation with your yearly usage.  It generally is not economical with these systems to just sell power to the grid on this small scale.  And the whole thing tends to be expensive.

[asheets]

Welcome aboard!

I'm a city-dweller as well, but still find this site very interesting and practical.  If I may, a few suggestions...

1. Read the old and new forums, and practice using the Google search function.  That will help with...
   
2. Be prepared to develop some thick skin.  New folks get pounded on a lot for asking questions that have already been discussed at length.  Heck, folks like me that have been here awhile get pounded for making the same mistake.  But don't let that stop you from...
   
3. Ask questions!  But be concise and provide plenty of detail.  Your initial post is pretty good in those respects.  TomW (a moderator and long-timer) can provide you a link to what he expects all posts to have.
   
4. Start conserving.  Every watt-hour that you don't consume is another watt-hour you don't have to generate or pay for.
   
5. Get yourself a logging weather station for your location.  I've been to Amarillo several times, and can tell you that SE of town is WAY different that downtown when it comes to wind.  I'm not sure where the METAR station is in Amarillo (probably at the airfield), but what it collects is bound to be different that your wind-generator location.
   
6. Smart small and have some fun.  I know you said you wanted a VAWT, but I started out with a 4 foot PVC bladeset, an Ametek PMM, and some scrap batteries in my backyard.  I then threw up some solar panels on the roof when the neighbors got worried about my HAWT tower.  Incidentally, that leads me to my last suggestion...
   
7. Make nice with your neighbors.  They can be your biggest supporters or your biggest hindrances -- with both wind and solar.  Heck, my neighbors don't like my TV antenna, think my panels are tacky, and got the city to put heat on me regarding my generator tower.
   
   

Best of luck to you...

[coldspot]

"*no one alive has read completly thru this site,"

Now,

 I know I'm on the 2nd or 3rd time!

 remembering everything, now thats different.

I ask some questions that I know but do it to try to get the information out there for somebody else!

 The search buttons work!

$0.02

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

We use a little under 1000 kwh per month. ... That need may go up a little as we're phasing out our use of natural gas for water heating and cooking.

You're using about 1400 watts 24/7.  That's a lot.

But adding heating loads to the electric is a BIG bump.  It takes a LOT of electrical power to do a LITTLE heating.

You might want to look into solar for the house and water heating, rather than adding that to the electric just as you're considering converting to local generation.  A square yard of collector averages about 5 kwhr/day at your latitude (presuming predominantly clear weather and no shading obstructions).  An expensive solar panel will convert maybe 15% of that to electricity but a cheap homebrew heating panel will get more than half of it.

And if you're considering switching your cooking to homebrew electric you might be OK with only a microwave but electric stoves and ovens would require you to massively upsize your system.

[Lumberjack]

solar hot water is a much more efficient then generating electricity...

If you are wanting to generate a serious amount of wind electricity you might stick to hawts. Pv is also something you should consider as well.

Before you do anything take a closer look at your energy usage and figure out where the biggest gains can be made. Then you can select the most cost effective way to achieve that gain. Insulation usually ends up at the top of the list for most places.

[RogerAS]

Mitzi,

Welcome to the most useful forum on the net for information about renewable energy. Although the forum is mainly focused on wind generated electricity all other RE topics are covered quite deeply.

I've been through your area several times and I noticed the trees exhibit a trait call "Wind Induced Tropism". This is when the trees grow in a reaction to a sustained wind from a particular direction. If my memory serves me the wind direction was west southwest. I also noticed the trees didn't grow very tall. This effect is an indicator that the winds are quite strong as well as sustained. I would venture that the wind exceeds the 12 MPH rating more often than not.

A VAWT capable of providing long term usable power will be a massive undertaking. Even with a very large back yard the outlook is not good. Do some searches of this board and you may well see why.

You might be very surprised at how well HAWT's work, if configured properly, even close to the ground. Several small turbines working together might work better in your setting than a big super machine.

I would hope you will consider the alternative of solar power in an urban setting. Solar panels don't shed blades in storms and never make a sound. With your big back yard you could install several KW of solar and indeed get off, or connect to, the grid very quickly. Solar panels are very expensive up front, but pay for themselves in the longevity they provide. Well made and well maintained panels have warranties and life expectancy well exceeding 20 years. I suspect improvements in the technology will push that number higher, and power output to match, in the next few years. I am aware that your area has some severe hail storms, as I rode into one on my motorcycle back in the day, so this is something to consider. Insurance on PV's might be available and something to research as well.

As for connecting to the grid I can't advise you. I know there are many that have done this, but the payoffs are counterpointed by the hoops most utility companies make you jump through. Also they do not pay you at the same rate they charge you. By lowering consumption and doing some research you may well find that RE can do you and your family a great service.

Good luck with what ever course you follow.

[TomW]

I agree thats a pile of electrons. We are all electric except wood heat for the house. We slip by with around 300 KWH a month or less. Thats the balance above the wind and solar production. Before we got smart about usage we were up in the 500 KWH range. Then we added solar and a turbine with more on the way.

With one Zubbly conversion at 2 meters and 300 watts of solar we can usually almost kinda keep up with our refrigerators' consumption. Fridge, cordless phone / answering machine and a light occasionally to be exact.

The first step is reduce, then reduce some more and once again reduce some more.

TomW

[Volvo farmer]

The first step is reduce, then reduce some more and once again reduce some more.

Ordinarily good advice, but for me, the first step was to ruthlessly reduce, and the next step was to get more RE electrons, then once again get MORE RE electrons. I think I'm going to break out an electric coffee pot this summer, Kill-a-watt said .12KWhr to brew up ten cups if I tranfer it to a thermal carafe immediately. Already paid for the electricity, might as well use it, propane is at $2.50+/gallon here.

[TomW]

VF;

Hey now none of this being practical stuff. That may take all the fun out of it.

Been heating my water for coffee at least most of the way on the wood stove all winter for my cone type brewer.

Going to lose that option soon with warm weather. only energy sources here are electrons, no propane, except wood heat.

All in good fun, and cheaper than a bass boat.

TomW

[youngre]

Mitzi,

I concur with the above comments.  This is a fantastic site which I have read for many years.  I also live in Amarillo.  We have a fantastic wind resource -- this is the reason that the USDA chose to locate its wind energy station in Bushland.  They told me that our average wind speed is 14.3mph at 30 feet.  We also have excellent solar insolation, so I concur with the above posts that PV should not be ignored.  We may have the best combination of wind resource and solar insolation in the country.

I am located on Dowell road 2.5 miles north of the Cadillac Ranch.  I have 7.2kW of solar panels on trackers and a Whisper 3000 on an 80ft. tower.  I put a new controller on the turbine in mid August, and it is presently reading approximately 5,800kWh produced since that time.  We have such an amazing wind resource here that I have been contacted by cars passing in front of the house to comment on the fact that the turbine is not turning because it is such a rare event. I also have a Proven 6kW turbine which I plan to erect later this year.

If you are interested in other renewable technologies, I have a geothermal heat pump, 400 evacuated solar tube collectors which heat my home through a radiant heating floor, solar air heaters which heat my barn, masonry heating fireplaces, and other interesting items.  

Locally, we have a great resource in Dave Regal -- he owns Earth Solar on I27 which sells RE equipment.  He can be contacted at www.earthsolar.com.  He is both knowledgeable and reputable.  We also have Dave Stebbins who has an amazing home that can be seen in a back issue of Home Power Magazine and who teaches the RE class at AC: he has a field trip each year which shows the students his home and my home to see both smaller and larger systems.  And, the renewable energy department at West Texas A&M with Dr. Ken Starcher is also very helpful.

Feel free to come and visit.  If I am not home, just leave a card on the door, and I will contact you.  I have read this site for so many years that I could not remember my original name and password, so I just chose a new one to post to you tonight.  Good luck with your system.

John

[elvin1949]

Andy

 I think i have read it all to.

Have to ask Tom how long i have been here .I don't know,way back on the old board.I just don't say much.

later

Elvin

[TheCasualTraveler]

OK, I'm working on revising my blanket statement,  

     "*no one alive has read completly thru this site,"

No normal person has read...

No mere mortal has...

Unless you are some kin...

According to Guiness's...

...with the exception of a small sect of...

...individuals obsessed above and beyond Normal obsess...

It's beyond me how anyone...

Nevermind, I'll just print a retraction.