Author Topic: starting new windmill (Read 6169 times)

methanolcat · « **on:** July 14, 2007, 04:16:33 AM »

hello to all and thankyou in advance for all your knowledge, ideas and opinions. I'm new to all of you but I've been keeping up on this board nearly every day for the last year. I have to give it up for zubbly on this motor conversion I am doing. It's a 7.5 baldor conversion that I will use for heating in the winter and battery charging during the remainder of the time. As you will see I am quite capable in most all you do here, I'm a tool and die maker/welder with access to all equiptment when I'm not working. I also have some background in electronics, only some, I can identify components, assemble circuits, read schematics, understand the workings of many simple components, but I'm no designer or engineer so some of the talk on the board is a mystery for me at this time, I learn quick though. Anyhow, thankyou all and here are some pic's that I have taken and I will post more as I progress.

mags and modified rotor, 2x1x.5 n42 mags

end/inside view hollow core to reduce weight

magnets screwed in place and 15 guage wire

another view of rotor with fan

laminates removed, skewed 10 degrees, reinstalled and painted

close up of skewed lams

new slotliners installed

wired and dipped in motor varnish, I wired all 36 connections external, sorry I didn't take pic's of every step, mostly the same as zubbly's conversion

mag rotor installed, used the throw it in method except i used a protector/ guide to help line everything up and for protection

I left only minimal clearance to get the most out of the magnets, shaft turns with no cogging at all with the skewed laminates. I did a voltage test wired 1 star and I get .4 volts per revolution at all speeds tested, more to come later, 60 foot freestanding tower, wood blades, more testing, I havn't done an amperage test yet

methanolcat · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2007, 10:36:22 PM »

sorry I didn't introduce myself (excited I guess, and trying to follow all posting rules), anyhow my name is Matthew and I'm 33 years old, live out in the countryside of northeast Indiana. Oh and I did make 1 mistake the tower will be only 50 foot tall, not 60 as I said. Questions and comments welcome, again thanks to ALL, especially zubbly for this one.

Nando · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2007, 10:36:53 PM »

CONGRATULATIONS for an excellent job super well done.

Can you supply the source of your magnets and the cost of them ?>

Can you inform about the expected peak voltage and peak RPM.

For heating the generator should be high voltage, I recommend 240 volts at peak RPM.

thanks

Nando

methanolcat · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2007, 11:05:07 PM »

the magnets and wire are from a company I do some work for (Delphi Energy systems, research and engineering dept) and given to me at no cost, shhhhh we won't tell, it's a one time thing though, although they do have some interesting things I might get my hands on, like square wire.

I think I'm looking at about 600 rpm, that will get me 240 volts. This was just for fun at this high speed, but I did a lathe test, no load at 1800 rpm and got 714 volts with 1 star.

rpm 103 v
rpm 140 v
rpm 198 v
rpm 262 v
rpm 375 v
rpm 513 v
rpm 714 v, again the last 3 are unrealistic but checked anyhow

I'm thinking maybe 10? to 12? foot cnc milled wood blades. I cnc milled a set of 8 foot diameter blades for my dad, I'm helping him make a dual rotor windjenny

willib · « **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2007, 11:07:59 PM »

methanolcat where did you find that rotor?

or did you make it

awesome work!

methanolcat · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2007, 11:18:18 PM »

I made it at the shop in my spare time, it's tubing, started with 1/2 wall tubing, made 2 end caps with cooling holes, welded tubing to end caps, press fitted 1 3/8 shaft in and welded it, took to lathe, indicated it in true, turned off excess material, took to cnc mill and machined magnet slots to appropriate depth (about 20 thousandths clearance between magnets and laminations) drilled and tapped holes for stainless steel screws, thats it, ready for mag's and paint. Didn't paint the mag's they are nickle plated.

wdyasq · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2007, 11:28:11 PM »

Nice work - 12 pole; 3PH; Skewed laminations. I'm wondering what size blade set you are going to use.

Ron

tecker · « **Reply #7 on:** July 14, 2007, 04:45:59 AM »

I like that rotor .How much torque does it that to break cog ?

tecker · « **Reply #8 on:** July 14, 2007, 04:49:51 AM »

sorry I didn't read the first time trough. no cog

Gary D · « **Reply #9 on:** July 14, 2007, 08:52:02 AM »

Beautiful workmanship! If Flux or Zubbly reply, it would be interesting to see if a 14 footer or a 16 footer is recommended. With the swept area of a 14 footer, it would take nearly 30 mph to have the power input available to reach your desired voltage. With a 16 footer, 25 mph is closer, but the rpm's will drop...(or higher tsr blade set?).

It was very interesting that Zubbly added in a battery bank to capture lower wind and therefore lower cutin voltage. There are many more days with 10 to 20 mph winds than 20 to 30 around here (low wind area). It would be nice to harvest as much as possible. Just a thought from the very cheap seats...

zubbly · « **Reply #10 on:** July 14, 2007, 09:59:33 AM »

hey Methanolcat!

awsome work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i especially love the hollow rotor. it will reduce needless weight considerably. my rotor was solid, but that was the easiest way to go at the time.

your voltage/rpm output seems to be exact to my unit. performance i expect will be somewhat the same.

i am using a 12 foot prop 3 blade,tsr-7, but the blades are of a 2 blade design. it does seem to work well, but you will likely go with the standard 3 blade profile. honestly, my 12 foot is a little shy i think on diamater, and when connected to a 48 volt batt bank, there does seem to be a bit of stall. going to a 14 foot minimum i think will make it just about perfect, or maybe a 16 foot maximum. not sure how you intend to use the unit. a while back, i figured i could capture more from my system for heating by charging a 60 volt battery bank and dumping to the elements from that. the 60 volt bank seemed to take away any stall that i had before with the 1 star connection. all in all, even with the 4kw plus output i sometimes saw from my unit, i think 4 kw really does not help with heating all that much, especially in a large old drafty house. my opinion is that the power generated is put to better use heating water, or simply charging batteries and using the power for everyday usage with an inverter. i will attempt the heating thing again when ever i get my 25hp conversion completed.

connected 1 star for 48 volt battery charging should give you cut in at about 120 rpm. with your 36 lead wires, you may find tweaking at one of the delta connections will suit your purposes better. your wind in your area will dictate a little on this i think.

what you have made i think is as good or quite possibly better than any gen you can buy on the market. mine has been on the 60 foot tower since last fall, furles out at i guesstimate at about 30mph wind (approx 450 rpm). your mags are a litle different than mine that i have 2 tappered holes to bury the head of the screw and yours look surface mount. even a tappered screw going into a non-tapered hole will still allow the head to be buried a bit, and obviously still allowed you to have sufficient clearance to the stator laminations. also, i think the groved slot you have is good. one single screw should be sufficient to keep the mags on the rotor. (still wondering when our host is going to start offering mags with holes, preferably tappered or recessed for screw mounting).

happy to see that others such as yourself are pursuing the conversion of motors. they are not perfectly ideal, but i still can't think of anything else that will give you so much back from a salvaged part source.

my 1.5hp conversion has been flying for about 4 years now. never once a problem with the gen except for some blade problems and tower clearances that i eventually solved.

thanks for sharing your experience and encouraging others in the conversion field.

zubbly

electrondady1 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 14, 2007, 12:28:04 PM »

congratulations methanolcat,wonderful work.

zubbly's responce has raised a question in my mind

if you are running the heaters off the batteries,

what charge controler you use for a 60volt battery bank ?.

as well, what method is used to enshure the batteries don't become too discharged while running your heaters.

have you abandoned the capacitor system you were experimenting with last year?

jondecker76 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 14, 2007, 12:47:58 PM »

Very nice looking job!

Not to hijack your thread, but what are the advantages to this type of conversion? Can you point me to some more information as far as voltage type (ac/dc), how to rewind them, etc? I have a near endless supply of industrial 3 phase motors from 20HP on up to several hundred.

thanks

Jon

vawtman · « **Reply #13 on:** July 14, 2007, 01:36:21 PM »

Nice Work Matt

This from a guy who has pulled the lams and skewed them.Fun, but no where near has cute(professional) has yours and Zubs.

wdyasq · « **Reply #14 on:** July 14, 2007, 01:49:44 PM »

http://www.reresource.org/User%20Pages/Zubbly/

A start - ask again after that is mastered.

Ron

zubbly · « **Reply #15 on:** July 14, 2007, 05:33:05 PM »

hey electrondady1,

the capacitors do work good, but they are the wrong type of capacitor i have and want to heat up when pushed above a certain level. need to get my hands on a pile of good motor run capacitors to do it properly.

the 60 volt battery bank control. basically, a home made version of the "mikes" bang bang dump load controler running from just one 12 volt batt in the string. i know everyone says that is crazy, not the proper way to do it (and i agree) but it does work and work well for now until possibly something goes wrong.

it controls a 3 pole industrial relay. the batts all seem to stay within about .3 of a volt of each other. they are car auto batts, revived with my home built desulphator. they cycle a lot when the mill is running in good wind and gets them charged quick after a dumping. the 60 volt string dumps at approx 75volt DC and stops dumping at approx63-64 volt. often no more than 2 minutes between dumps in high winds.

crazy system, but does seem to do what i want it to.

zubbly

windy · « **Reply #16 on:** July 14, 2007, 10:31:12 PM »

methanolcat

I am also thinking of doing a 7.5hp conversion. Could you tell me how you got the stator offset? Did you press the whole pack out as one unit or did you take each plate out one at a time? Nice looking job!

windy

methanolcat · « **Reply #17 on:** July 14, 2007, 11:10:13 PM »

well not sure about all motors but mine is made by baldor, my stator had 4 welds on the flats keeping them all together so I pressed out the stator lams as a complete set, while still welded together I placed it in a mill vice squeesing it front to back, just as your looking at it inside the housing, then I milled a slot 3/8 wide from front to back at a 15 degree angle, did this on 2 opposing sides, so now I have an angled slot on the flat sides of the lams, then I cut off the welds and put in my oven at home on the highest setting for about 45 minutes to an hour to loosen some type of glue or even motor varnish which was keeping them together, while hot wearing welding gloves and using a sharp putty knife separate the lams being sure to keep them in the exact same order while separating. Keeping it hot will help to separate them. Once all are separated and cool simply line up the milled 15 degree slots to 0 degrees or straight, I used 2 pieces of 3/8 rod.

Next I set the housing up in the mill and cut a 3/16 slot long ways on 2 sides of the housing so that once the stator was in the housing I could weld the housing and the lams together at the same time, make sure it's right though as it would be very tough to ever remove it after welding it in.

Before I ever removed the lams from the case I welded 4 flywheel keys spaced evenly on one side so that when I was ready to press the lams back in they would all be square in the housing and would also be in proper relationship to the mag rotor.

The flywheel keys and milled slots can be seen in the pictures above, the slots have 2 of the long bolts in them which hold the ends on.

Hope all this makes since, Thank everyone for their comments.

methanolcat · « **Reply #18 on:** July 14, 2007, 11:21:21 PM »

In the above reply I should have said 10 degrees and NOT 15 degrees, and using rods like that as long as the fit snug in the slots will line up the wire slots perfectly to each other, no misalignment at all, it makes it a bit easier to install wires without scratching them.

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Author Topic: starting new windmill (Read 6169 times)