HandGen - Mk1

[wadlands]

Hi - all - just been taking time out from my Stepper Motor Genny project and Mk3 turbine build to get my HandGen built and running:



...currently excercise (walks & treadmill) as one of the ways of managing my glucose levels as a T2 diabetic.  The HandGen was always one prong of the "master plan" to turn glucose maangement into positive & productive energy production...big tick in the box for that now!!!  Simple HandGen build that sits on a table (clamped) when using it.

The second prong was to build a simple PedGen .... build nearly complete...will post pic in next couple of days.

....using the HandGen really gives a feeling of "well worth it"!!!!

Gee

[Norm]

Okay now where in the world did you salvage that from?
....is that a one handed or two device?
I'm still working on and improving on the PedGen, switched
from a 20 inch wheel to a 12 inch so the ratio would be lower
and now its a 12volt charger instead of 24 volt....only thing
I went to the other extreme @ 1:6 ratio it's too easy .....
1:10 ratio was too hard for 12 volts.....maybe 1:8 will be the right
compromise.
Exercise is very helpful....especially for diabetics....but giving in to
impulse and splurging on the wrong stuff to eat really puts the level about double
what it should be .....
but getting off topic a little.....probably should discuss this over in the
Pub ?
Norm.

[wadlands]

Hi Norm - it's a LG wsahing machine motor - bit like a F&P that I mounted in a wooden frame and attached a handle to:



Single handed operation - alternate with each arm and used to charge 9.6v 2500 NiMh pack or 12v lead gel.  Get between 1.5 to 1.8 amps charge current respectively at a reasonable steady cranking speed.  Priority is the additional exercise with the bonus payoff of battery charging at the same time....seems to work well.

Gee

[Norm]

2 handed crank will work better like another of my projects in the near future
attached to my air compressor. (Then an air motor to drive a small generator)

Day dreaming.....
But right now making a 1.3 amp/hr. NiCad replacement for my yard tractor
battery  ( a regular garden tractor battery runs about $20 ).
Norm.
Like that L&G ....slighty envious....LOL !

[Bruce S]

but getting off topic a little.....probably should discuss this over in the
Pub ?
Norm.

Norm, NO worries about getting off topic unless "wadlands" doesn't it here, since he's the OP.
YOU sir have earned the respect of a great many people here. (ME included) , I'll cover your drifts.
Keep posting.
wadlands: I'll be sending you a PM soon, have an offer you might like :-)
Cheers!
Bruce S
PS Like Norm I'm a little envious of the HanGen 

[wadlands]

Norm - hi - yes I'm onboard with the exercise payoff in managing glucose levels.

I manage quite aggressively with corrrect diet and exercise (along with minimal drugs - minimise the medication risks!!!!) and my best year was with an HbA1c of 5.1. 
Do due to a difficult time last year have slipped to HbA1c of betwee 5 and 6......want to get it back down to 5.0....cause I know I can!!!

Bruce - hi & thanks

One of the reasons for using the LG for the hand genny is so that I can find the star point & experiment with rectifying the three phases separately (Jerry Rigged?) - any comments worth doing to get higher current levels??

Gee

[ghurd]

Yes.  Worth doing!
G-

[wadlands]

Ok - we have pedal power...I was lucky to get a (very) old exercise bike for £5 !!!! and cannabalised the original front friction belt drive wheel to retain the sprocket link to the pedal crank. 

Coupled to another LG motor and amps into batteries .... AND aching legs!!!....makes you appreciate how much effort my Stepper Genny is putting into creating amps



....another big tick in the box....and now back to the Mark3 Stepper Genny turbine blades.

Gee

[zap]

Sweeet!

[wadlands]

Hi guys - a question for those in the know:

my PedGen is working fine and rewired the stator to give about 20 to 30V+ at "normal" pedalling rpm's - charges 12v batteries just fine.

Got my hands on an inverter and wanted to connect it to the telly - watch tv while I'm pedalling!!! ....nothing new there!!!.

.....Can I just plug my PedGen output into the normal 12v input for the inverter - thought I'd ask before trying - in case the nominal 20v to 30v+ from the PedGen caused damage to the inverter??

Thanks
Gee

[Bruce S]

Hi guys - a question for those in the know:

.....Can I just plug my PedGen output into the normal 12v input for the inverter - thought I'd ask before trying - in case the nominal 20v to 30v+ from the PedGen caused damage to the inverter??

Thanks
Gee

Gee;
While in theory you could do this, but I'm pretty sure the inverter would show low volt then high volt as you tried to keep up with the TV's needs  .
Best would be to leave Pedgen connected as you currently have it and connect inverter to battery pack.
The older CRT TVs seem to do better with MSW inverters, I've tried my flat screen TV on a good Vecter unit that is rated well above it's power needs, but it doesn't seem to like it. On a 1400Vac UPS no problem but the inverter's output is just too dirty for it.

Hope this helps
Bruce S

[wadlands]

Bruce - hi - thanks for coming back to me.

Tried plugging a crt tv into the inverter while it is connected in parallel to the battery being charged by the Pedgen - but no joy.  TV won't come on and I think its because the inverter must be going into a shutdown mode for over voltage. 

Found the spec sheet for the inverter - overvoltage shutdown is 14.5 to 15.5 v.  So with the Pedgen kicking out a minimum of 20v I think its gonna be a no-goer for me.

Ah well - I'll have to come at the problem some other way??

Gee

[TomW]

wadlands;

Even a wimpy battery will probably help buffer the power and voltage. It would both regulate the voltage and supply some ballast amps for load spikes.

Otherwise you will probably never get satisfactory results directly connected inverter to Handgen.

Tom

[Bruce S]

Gee;
 Mu bad I should've made my post much more clearer  .
Use the Pedgen to charge battery, stop pedaling watch TV for breaks.
IF you're wanting to watch TV while pedaling then, Using a few handy items you could build up a charge regulator (LM7815 + discreet devices like caps and resistors) to keep the output to a level high enough to charge battery but not put inverter in to fault.
Fairchild has a LM7815 that will max out at 1A and take voltages pretty high.
Google or search engine of your choice should show several quickie circuits that will work with stuff found in most older TVs or radios.

Sorry for the confusion.
Bruce S

[wadlands]

TomW - hi - yes - although I appear to have misunderstood Bruce's post I had thought the buffering aspect would enable it to work - but appears not in my case!!!

Bruce - I was now also thinking along the lines of a voltage regulator.  But given that the pedgen output is around 19v to 30v won't the voltage reg just get exceptionally hot (I know I could heatsink it) - wasting a lot of hard won (pedalled) energy??  Also is 1Amp current handing sufficient?  The spec plate on the tv is 162W at 240v, its a large old crt device.  Won't the battery and so the voltage reg have to handle around 13 amps given the nominal 12v into the inverter?

I've been googling dc to dc converters and wondering if that may be an alternative way of handling the 19v / 30v output from the pedgen and reducing it to a controlled 12v for the inverter?

....little grey cells starting to fire into action again....

Gee

[Norm]

Hi guys - a question for those in the know:

my PedGen is working fine and rewired the stator to give about 20 to 30V+ at "normal" pedalling rpm's - charges 12v batteries just fine.

Got my hands on an inverter and wanted to connect it to the telly - watch tv while I'm pedalling!!! ....nothing new there!!!.

.....Can I just plug my PedGen output into the normal 12v input for the inverter - thought I'd ask before trying - in case the nominal 20v to 30v+ from the PedGen caused damage to the inverter??

Thanks
Gee

Should work fine if you have a battery with fairly large capacity like 75 amp/hrs. fully charged.
now hook the inverter and the tv up turn 'em on.
Now hook your pedgen parallel to the battery and a voltmeter ....start pedaling....I doubt if
the voltage will go much higher than the battery voltage ...the internal resistance of the battery
should clamp the voltage.
  The most improtant thing remember when you are pedaling....pedal slow and gradually pick up
speed until you feel it cut in....then just pedal faster and watch the voltmeter.....if the voltage
starts to go too high....slow down KISS! (keep it simple stupid) LOL !

  thats one of the neat things with a pedgen ....you are in control !
Norm.

[Norm]

Bruce ....running a Telly is easy enough David Butcher solves it by using a
large capacitor but it's kinda pricey
http://www.los-gatos.ca.us/davidbu/pedgen/ultimate_pedal_tv.html
but efficient....I'd prefer just a large battery and parallel the pedgen....if you can't keep
up ...just shut it off during commercials and keep pedaling....keep pedaling....
after awhile most sane people will realize why do I want to watch this stupid program
on TV anyhow ?    LOL 

[Bruce S]

Bruce ....running a Telly is easy enough David Butcher solves it by using a
large capacitor but it's kinda pricey
http://www.los-gatos.ca.us/davidbu/pedgen/ultimate_pedal_tv.html
but efficient....I'd prefer just a large battery and parallel the pedgen....if you can't keep
up ...just shut it off during commercials and keep pedaling....keep pedaling....
after awhile most sane people will realize why do I want to watch this stupid program
on TV anyhow ?    LOL 

I agree on the KISS method. I was lazy yesterday, I'm nursing an old shoulder wound and back muscle spasms( from playing around with new puppy ) and did not reread Gee's current setup.
A larger battery would certainly work in keeping the system at a level voltage. Working the setup the way you explained is a much better way for going with what is already in place.
Cheers;
Bruce S

[wadlands]

ok - glad you guys put up the extra replies - made me think that "it should have worked"....I must have done somthing wrong; although my battery is a 34Ah and not 70+Ah - the buffering aspect should work...its conceptually (electrically) correct AND above all it does keep it KISS.    Sooooo just been having another go with the inverter in parallel with the battery and Pedgen to power the tv - hurrah - it works now!!!!

I think yesterday - because everything doesn't quite reach ie the tv mains lead to the inverter and the enverter leads to the battery and the pedgen leads to the battery (you get the picture!!).  Then yesterday I think the tv mains lead was jiggling itself out of the inverter and knocking the tv OFF.  So now I've got it working I'll make some proper length leads and we're good to go as they say.

Norm - I agree with you that there is a lot of "rubbish" on the tv.  My intention is to Star Trek style transport myself from the couch potato position of watching the odd tv programme / film I do enjoy with a "leisurely" but programme long tv Pedgen-Watch....looks as if it can be done.  The idea is that the pedgen workout stops being an "extra" activity / chore and becomes something I do whilst watching a programme I would ahve sat done for anyway.

I also thought the capacitor idea was intersting - but ahven't got anything approaching 53 Farads - got two 1 Farad big cans from a car audio setup.  But looks as if the inverter in parallel with the battery is gonna work anyway.

Thanks to all for chipping in.

Gee

[wadlands]

oops...forgot to say that I'm getting between 3 to 5 amps and the battery is holding the pedgen output to 13 / 14 volts...seems reasonable?

[Bruce S]

oops...forgot to say that I'm getting between 3 to 5 amps and the battery is holding the pedgen output to 13 / 14 volts...seems reasonable?

Yes, this is just right :-).
Glad you got it sorted out. PBS has some nice "extra channels" about traveling/gardening, now that they've nearly ALL gone digital.
NOT saying the other channels don't have good stuff too, but with PBS you get to see the entire program without commercials.

Cheers;
Bruce S

[Norm]

oops...forgot to say that I'm getting between 3 to 5 amps and the battery is holding the pedgen output to 13 / 14 volts...seems reasonable?

Yep ....kinda figured the battery would clamp down on the voltage.....

Cause that's the way it works in my world....over here....
I bet if you had a newer TV with LCD or LED screen you could keep up
sitting on the couch and casually pedaling....
Norm.

[wadlands]

Norm - hold that thought!!!....I can see that I'll need to knock up a recumbent Pedgen then!!!

Gee

[Norm]

Gee, LOL !
Norm.

[wadlands]

At last some more progress with my attempts at a PedGen & TV combo….previously had tried with a 60W 19 inch LCD TV screen and one of my old generation TV sets – a 36inch 162W CRT screen.  Got them both working with an inverter and 35Ahr lead acid 12v car battery.

BUT since I can only generate 30W to 80W (max) on my PedGen the battery would eventually / quickly drain and was not the solution I was aiming for.

Spotted a bargain (£50) 16inch LED TV screen in the Xmas sales at the UK version of Wal-Mart (Asda) claimed to run on just 28W…..hurrah…..turns out to be just the solution I was looking for.



I can now pedal away…… burn glucose, watch television AND charge a battery at the same time….now it definitely feels as if I'm a bit ahead of the curve!!!!

Just a small question if anyone wants to clear up for me:  generator output goes through bridge rectifier to dc and into my version of a Watt Meter and then out to the battery on charge – should I have a diode in one of the battery charge leads to prevent current flowing back into the genny windings when I tire and drop rpm's??

Wishing all a Happy New Year for 2012

Gee

[hiker]

you could try a ac motor conversion--mine works great--no need for a inverter or batts--just straight power from the motor..
  powers powers up a tv -sabersaw-stereo-handdrill--lights--
cant find my tv vid--heres a stereo its powering up-and others--fun stuff--good luck with yours...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFd1EVfgzo4

[hiker]

heres a pict. powering up a tv as well..

[wadlands]

hiker - Hi - thanks for posting your vid - great to see "them old vynils still turning", I've still got two boxes in the loft somewhere but sadly the turntable went a long time ago.

I've had a beefy ac motor hanging around for ages that I want eventually to convert into a generator:





....not sure if I can readily couple this up to my cannabalised exercise bike setup...or indeed if I could then pedal & turn it!!!!....might have a go at a Mk2 PedGen sometime though ....worth a go d'ya think???

Gee

[kenl]

 Gee,  Did you rewire the lg before adapting it to the ped gen? Is it the new model with aluminum coils? Looks a lot different then the f&p,s I use for turbines.

I like the pedal to watch tv setup, use to threaten the kid with that type of setup when he'd spend hours on his xbox. Damn things suck 350w and add a 42" flat screen to that, whew the meter would spin. Not sure if you know or not but the new led flat screens draw about what that little one of yours does. I'm talking 42" and up.
 

[mab]

Just a small question if anyone wants to clear up for me:  generator output goes through bridge rectifier to dc and into my version of a Watt Meter and then out to the battery on charge – should I have a diode in one of the battery charge leads to prevent current flowing back into the genny windings when I tire and drop rpm's??

No; the bridge rectifier will stop any back-flow through the genny - the only thing that may still be draining the battery might be the wattmeter - if it is powered from the genny cables.

m

[wadlands]

kenl – Hi – yes I did rewire the stator.  It's a 36 coil stator so originally 3 phase with 12 coils in series for each phase.  I rewired it to have 6 coils in each phase and paralleled:

Originally it was giving me about 40v to 75v at 100 to 200 rotor rpm and I needed to have 2x 12v ie 24v battery on charge to get a sensible current level / torque demand on the legs!!!!

Rewiring it as a 36 pole 6x2C (as they call it on the F&P rewiring sites) enabled me to have a more sensible 19v to 31v at 100 to 200 rotor rpm – delivering a reasonable 24 to 60 watts (1.5A to 3A) into a 12v 35Ah battery.

Of course it was only when I had snipped the relevant coils to re-solder them did I realise the wire was aluminium!!!!!…….new challenges always flood in!!!!…..eventually tracked down some “Alu Solder” and was really pleased with the outcome.

mab – thanks for clearing the diode question up for me.  It was the fact that my watt meter was still reading when I wasn't pedalling that threw me.  But I need it to continue to read when I stop pedalling – because that's the only way I know what my cumulative amps into the battery are for that PedGen session.

Does anyone know of a Watt Meter that can hold a cumulative total of power generated over a number of sessions??  OR a circuit – I can make pcb and solder.

Oh – another question if anyone knows: being diabetic I like to track the calories that I burn (can relate to glucose levels).  My off the shelf treadmill of course has its own manufacturers digital readout.  Is ther anyway to relate the watts of electricity generated on the PedGen to mechanical watts / calories expended??

Gee

[kenl]

Gee,

 A Doc Wattson meter will do the cumulative watts produced and a lot of other measurements. A Watts Up may also they are both made by the same people. The back shed has a adrino project I believe if you wanted to build something.

 I wired my turbine (#2) 6x2c it outputs 10-15 amps into a 24v bank, but would you believe 30+ amps into a 48v bank in the same wind? My ampmeter I use only goes to 30a so not sure what the actual is.

 Really like the pedgen you built, maybe I'll use the bike the kid left when he moved out last year as a donor and build one I can see real potential here with what you and Norm are doing.

 Do you have any idea what you gear ratio is?

 On the calorie question just goggle watts to calorie, you'll find some calculators for that.

kenny

[Norm]

 
Does anyone know of a Watt Meter that can hold a cumulative total of power generated over a number of sessions??  OR a circuit – I can make pcb and solder.

Oh – another question if anyone knows: being diabetic I like to track the calories that I burn (can relate to glucose levels).  My off the shelf treadmill of course has its own manufacturers digital readout.  Is ther anyway to relate the watts of electricity generated on the PedGen to mechanical watts / calories expended??

Gee

I had that same problem until my Watt Meter went haywire.
So I have a digital bike speedometer/odometer...Schwinn 8 function ? Clock, speedometer, odometer, average speed
max speed, time pedaling, trip meter.
Its hooked up to the 12" bike wheel that spins the 4 " wheel on the ECM shaft.
Pedaling at a speed of about 50 rpm of the pedal crank....I would be traveling along at an actual
speed of 3.2- 3.5mph if the wheel were to be touching the ground.
Luckily when I had the watt meter working I noticied that about 1 mile took 20 minutes of this
leisurely pedaling.....in other words 1 watt/hr. for .1 of a mile.
I pedal the equivalent of 5 miles a day about the same as if I had walked that distance
the only difference my legs and feet don't have to support my weight.

Now along with kenl has said a watt meter will do the cumlative watts but I charge a lot of
Ni Cads and every time I switched batteries ....unless I hooked up another battery before I
unhooked the prior the cumulative watts got reset to 0 .

So its easier to just use the bike digital.
On the calorie question just goggle watts to calorie, you'll find some calculators for that.

Seems like it's 1 watt= 1 calorie ?......or maybe thats too easy ....hmmm 

Norm.....