Author Topic: my first mill 8.5' servo (Read 10178 times)

birdhouse · « **on:** June 29, 2011, 02:07:28 AM »

hey all-
brief intro of the first mill i've finally finished and flown. more to come. no wattage testing done yet. 70' tilt up tower from scratch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARgEb7CSDtw

best part is i learned most of it here at the OP!

put this in a diary, because i'd like to document it more as i get more footage and time.

adam

ghurd · « **Reply #1 on:** June 29, 2011, 02:33:02 AM »

Sweet!
That scale of stuff scarces me to death. Twice.

"How 'bout some hot melt" he said.
Silly comment. Nothing like that could be built without hot glue.
Congrats,
G-

bj · « **Reply #2 on:** June 29, 2011, 09:04:02 AM »

Very nice, thanks for the share. Good motivation for some of us that need it.

TomW · « **Reply #3 on:** June 29, 2011, 10:04:01 AM »

Cool Beans!

Thanks for the share.

And, I agree. Those guys should NOT be standing there but I used to be young and indestructible once, too!

Not any more.

That grin can't be removed with a chisel after you get one up and spinning. One commercial I saw calls it "Pudding Face"

Thanks again for the share.

Tom

birdhouse · « **Reply #4 on:** June 29, 2011, 11:08:36 AM »

thanks all for the kind works!

g- i use hot melt to hold all the pins in the turn buckles! big safety factor there!

heading back up to my place weekend after next to get the mill actually hooked to the battery bank and switch my ts-60 from PWM to diversion mode, and hook up my dump load. i also have been shopping around for winches, so i can raise and lower it solo without a truck. will be much safer that way!

still very anxious to know what kind of juice this unit will push. i had it free-wheeling for our friends to watch. later that evening, it got moving so fast, the blades turned into an almost solid white disk! any guesses on the rpm to create that visual effect? it did barely begin to furl even free-wheeling, so that makes me feel good that i may have gotten the furling set early if anything.

shorted the mill before going to bed and when i left to come back home. hoping the winds up there don't break through the short and burn things up before i get back up there!

downloading some more video now from a friend and should get some more pics from my girlfriend tonight.

adam

DanG · « **Reply #5 on:** June 29, 2011, 11:21:07 AM »

Six AM and I'd cranked the volume to hear those pedestrian comments when that bayou howl woke up the house.

Winches, the worm gear flavor is where its at - no/low chance of it running away backing off.

Any chances of more photos of the overall site? Something done that well deserves farming more of them up

TomW · « **Reply #6 on:** June 29, 2011, 12:20:54 PM »

Quote

Winches, the worm gear flavor is where its at - no/low chance of it running away backing off.

I used to think that...

I bagged one of these awhile back:

http://www.jettools.com/us/manufacturing/en/product.html?node=4596&product=272889

rated for 1500# and uses 5/16" cable or the metric equivalent.

I got mine online for a lot less than I see them listed for now.

It is a fine pulling machine very positive control and everything stops when you do. It comes with a 60 foot cable.

You can pull 15 miles of cable with it if you need to as it just moves the cable through the puller. Pumping one lever feeds in and the other feeds out.

Bottom line is these work and work well.

Just FYI after several winching methods including spur gear winches, worm drive winches and the 4X4 pickup method.

Tom

GoVertical · « **Reply #7 on:** June 29, 2011, 04:31:37 PM »

Hi, very nice video. Can post any photos of the base of the mast? Congratulations on a safe install.

fixitguy · « **Reply #8 on:** June 29, 2011, 06:26:16 PM »

a proper raising for sure.at first look i thought the 2 dudes holding the ginpole were trying to keep it from bowing..what was they doing?
looks very well thought out...nice job.

birdhouse · « **Reply #9 on:** June 29, 2011, 10:57:50 PM »

DanG- sorry the high volume and waking the family @ 6am.
i'm thinking of a worm drive winch. grip pulls interest me as well. wondering which one is faster.

tom- do you direct grip pull your tower(s) up or run the pull line through a pulley? how much effort is involved in the back forth action?

the motor Fanuc A-06 series

the motor innerds

fiberglass on blades

tower base

there all you go! enjoy! and bring on any criticism... though there are parts incomplete. no j-box, tower needs paint, better cable support needed, winches needed.

thanks for all the knoledge here!
adam

Southbuck · « **Reply #10 on:** June 29, 2011, 11:19:42 PM »

Nice write up.
Nice looking build.
How much blade clearance to tower?

Have fun with it

Southbuck

TomW · « **Reply #11 on:** June 30, 2011, 07:00:19 AM »

birdhouse;

I have done both ways. Single straight pull and pulley reduction pull. I much prefer the 2:1 advantage pulling if the cable is long enough.

Not too difficult to operate and one cycle of the pulling lever pulls about 1.5 to 2 inches of cable.

I doubt it takes even 50# of pressure to operate the handle to start my 12 footer up from horizontal with a 40 foot mast and 18 foot gin pole and straight pull with no reduction.

it was considerably more difficult with the worm drive I had used.

Tom

birdhouse · « **Reply #12 on:** June 30, 2011, 11:57:39 AM »

southbuck-
less clearance than i'd like. i think it is around 8 inches. the blades are made from laminated clear fir, and are pretty thick until about the halfway point, and they've got a layer of fiberglass on them. hopefully all of these things keeps the flexing to a minimum, thus eliminating a tower strike! (crossing fingers) i could always stack a few washers between different parts of the motor and frame to tilt the whole blade set back a little more to gain some more clearance...

tom-
thanks for the info on the grip pullers. seems people who have been at this a while prefer these type for lifting towers. there must be some merit to that, but by golly they aren't cheap! on the specs they list about 10 foot per minute. with my 2:1 and around 100 foot of pull line, that would put me raised in around ten minutes. i also wonder if you have to crank like a meth head trying to break into a pharmacy to get the 10' per minute...

any other comments/concerns/criticism/advice are entirely welcome!

adam

TomW · « **Reply #13 on:** June 30, 2011, 01:44:23 PM »

Quote from: birdhouse on June 30, 2011, 11:57:39 AM

tom-
thanks for the info on the grip pullers. seems people who have been at this a while prefer these type for lifting towers. there must be some merit to that, but by golly they aren't cheap! on the specs they list about 10 foot per minute. with my 2:1 and around 100 foot of pull line, that would put me raised in around ten minutes. i also wonder if you have to crank like a meth head trying to break into a pharmacy to get the 10' per minute...

adam

Adam;

Without setting it up for actual tests:

I make it about a second per cycle of the handle and roughly 2" of cable through per cycle. So a minute would be 60 strokes and 120 inches a minute or roughly 10 feet.

All questimates but well within the ballpark.

I couldn't "crank like a meth head" if my life depended on it It is quite pleasant / easy to use.

One downside is if you hook the pull cable directly to the gin pole rather than through a fixed pulley on the anchor it tends to bounce from pumping it. This goes away if you run it anchor >>>>puller>>>>sheave>>>>gin pole. If that makes sense.

Tom

birdhouse · « **Reply #14 on:** June 30, 2011, 02:12:47 PM »

tom-
yea that sounds good on the speed. sometimes manufactures stretch FPM, RPM/M ect. ect. sounds like JET is using real world pull times.

YES, i fully see how you could get "bounce" with out the sheave/snatchblock/pulley/ect (how many names are there for those things???

almost forgot to mention... i gotta get you guys on the forum into lowering your towers with a static rope and a rock climbing type belay device! you still leave the cable in place so you can use whatever hoisting method you like, but the static/belay set-up is awesome for lowering.

basically tie a rope to your raising/lowering footing loop it through a shackle (not a pulley, better friction that way) on your gin pole. then attach it it a climbing type belay device with one extra bend somewhere on the belay device. i was able to lower a 70' tower in around a minute. best part is, it was extremely controllable, very fluid, and fast! it only took my thumb and index finger to hold the brake line even when the tower was almost to the ground.

best part is, when the tower is down, you untie the rope from the footing, pull it through the shackle on the gin pole, and it was like it was never there. if this needs pics to explain, i can mock some up. but, man, this seems like a stellar/safe and easy way to get a tower down in a hurry if a storm was rolling in or something.

this is the type of belay device i use, though there are many types, and most climbing static ropes are rated for 3000-7000#
http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/product_Trango-Pyramid-Belay-Device_10019418_10208_10000001_-1_

anyways, thought you might want to hear about that.

also working up a better spec. sheet on pipe type, cable type, motor exacts, offsets. tsr ect...

adam

ghurd · « **Reply #15 on:** June 30, 2011, 10:26:23 PM »

Quote from: birdhouse on June 30, 2011, 11:57:39 AM

less clearance than i'd like. i think it is around 8 inches. the blades are made from laminated clear fir, and are pretty thick until about the halfway point, and they've got a layer of fiberglass on them. hopefully all of these things keeps the flexing to a minimum, thus eliminating a tower strike! (crossing fingers) i could always stack a few washers between different parts of the motor and frame to tilt the whole blade set back a little more to gain some more clearance...

If it was mine, I would sleep better with those washers installed.
G-

birdhouse · « **Reply #16 on:** June 30, 2011, 11:36:51 PM »

G- yea, i'll do that next time up weekend after the 4th. then, i'll be able to give a positive blade clearance measurement. i'm almost losing more sleep over the fact that it's shorted, yet not connected to a battery bank right now. just checked the ten-day wind forecast for up there, and 17mph is the highest. i think it can handle that.

since this is my diary afterall, i wanna list some specs i've got so far. may make a good model for someone to follow in the future. maybe not. from the ground up:

footings- 18 x 18 at top, 36 x 36 at bottom, and four foot deep/tall. about 3,000lbs of concrete.

rebar- all welded, mix of mishmash from the shop. guy connections into small "I" beams that go into footings, and welded to the rest of it.

pipe- same for tower and gin. 20' chunks of .156 x 4" pipe. really cheap on salvage pricing.

tower/gin joints- gusseted with 14" long chunks of 1/4" with hole drilled for guy connections. gussets every 20'

tower hinge- 4 x 4 x 1/4 angle welded to 4" pivot pipe. found scrap in shop that nestled.

guys- 1/4 for the top, and 3/16 for lower sets. used one size larger on all thimbles.

mill- has a 6" offset (ctr of blades to ctr of tower) for a 102" blade diameter, roughly following the 4-6% rule. i went with 6% because i figure it's much easier to add weight to the tail.

furling- followed hugh's book to the "t" if i understood it correctly

incorporated- a 3% upward tilt on blade mounting to increase tower to blade distance.

motor- fanuc A06B-0355-B755. 3-PHASE 2000RPM 140V 20A 23Nm(stall) 8POLE blt-1997

blade mounting- double stainless round disks 12" x 3/16" sandwiching blades. these mount to a solid block of round ALU that matches the motor's taper shaft. bolted and shear pins. (the one part i didn't make)

blades- 8 pieces of clear fir laminated in a 2pc x 4pc config with offset joints. roughed out with a chainsaw thanks to Oztules! angle grinder with flapwheel to finish rough out, and sanded. one layer of 6oz fiberglass on outer 2/3's wetted with west system. then two more layer of west to get good build-up and fill divits. (small batches with filler). 3 coats of 2-part epoxy paint, then a final rattlecan for uv.

hardwear- all stainless.

wiring- 6/3SO down the tower (80 foot with slack) and to stop switch. then (3) #3's to outside rectifier in a box (50') then, stay with me here, a #6 and two #8's for the pos. off the rect. then a #6, a #8 and two #12's for the neg. so that grip of random (and free) wires goes 65' to the battery bank. all wire was free except for the 6/3SO.

i probably forgot to mention something but figure it's be good to get specs down while they were on my mind.

adam

Isaiah · « **Reply #17 on:** June 30, 2011, 11:36:52 PM »

Birdhouse
Nice looking set up and lots of information.
Could you give us the spec's on your servo motor?
volts, rpm , amps
Thank You For The pictures , some of us folks cant do utube and need pictures.
Isaiah

birdhouse · « **Reply #18 on:** June 30, 2011, 11:38:55 PM »

thanks isaiah!

just gave specs

adam

wpowokal · « **Reply #19 on:** July 01, 2011, 01:47:43 AM »

That looks like neat work, just two observations in the video once the tower was up and you were connecting the turnbuckle there seemed to be nothing holding it up from the pull up direction.

When you get to mounting a heavier turbine on top of that tower just remember that when raising and lowering there can be a tendency for the tower to fold over if one does not take a strain on the mid point from the opposite side to the gin pole.

Allan of the jungle

birdhouse · « **Reply #20 on:** July 01, 2011, 11:08:18 AM »

Allan-
two very good safety points! a very simple clip on leash should solve the first potential issue. if a gust came from the gin pole side, it could create enough force to put the whole thing over!

from what i've read about needing "back pressure" on the middle portions of a tower applies only to taller towers that get a little more "noodlie" as they go up. i would like to add a back-haul winch to let the tower into it's final home, so it could double as the back pressure to mitigate tower buckling as well!

thanks for the insight!

hope you're getting settled into your new home! so jealous of your solar and batteries!

adam

kitestrings · « **Reply #21 on:** July 01, 2011, 11:33:16 AM »

birdh,

Very nice. Congrat's! I like the blade finish. look's like it came out really well.

~kitestrings

TomW · « **Reply #22 on:** July 01, 2011, 11:35:56 AM »

Quote from: birdhouse on July 01, 2011, 11:08:18 AM

i would like to add a back-haul winch to let the tower into it's final home, so it could double as the back pressure to mitigate tower buckling as well!

adam

Adam;

I installed a cheap spur gear boat winch near my pulling position. Rigged with sufficient poly rope through a pulley at the back guy anchor point to the top guy point on tower. This makes a nice one man job to lower it and the rope stretch helps ease it over on tilting it up.

birdhouse · « **Reply #23 on:** July 11, 2011, 09:42:51 PM »

i finally got back up to my place to finish up the mill installation. dump-load is hooked up, and mill, and solar are both running with my ts-60 in dump mode.

took some video of the mill spinning...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYgva48juZ4

adam

bj · « **Reply #24 on:** July 12, 2011, 07:44:22 AM »

Sweet Adam. Doesn't look like much turbulence. It's just getting down to business.

snake21 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 12, 2011, 09:15:38 AM »

hi,great video.

some info about the output would be nice.

birdhouse · « **Reply #26 on:** July 12, 2011, 11:20:36 AM »

thanks all!

the forecast was saying 6-7mph winds, but i think they were closer to 10-12mph. i still don't have an ammeter hooked up to the genny, but my solar and wind were both feeding straight to my batteries, and they were more or less full. the most i've ever seen come out of the solar is 12amps @ 28 volts. my ts-60 was dumping 14-15 amps at 28-29ish volts, so from guesstimate deductive reasoning, i think the mill was putting out 50-80 watts in 10-12 mph winds (during the video shooting)

it has a little higher cut-in than i'd like, but hey, it's my first one, so live and learn! i wish it was windier so i could get an idea as to weather i got the furling dialed or not.

it takes a bit to learn about what's going on with a new mill, especially when i only get up to my place 2 weekends a month if i'm lucky!

adam

birdhouse · « **Reply #27 on:** December 26, 2011, 03:11:22 PM »

old diary that i'm "keeping up"

so as of yet, the most i've seen out of this mill is 700w.

i need to re-do the yaw bearing with some delron plastic or something. it's not seeking the wind very well right now, and furling is screwy as well.

but here's some video of her running in the fog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bRWu5oZBSY&list=UUabajWb3cDP2fzWZCO4x2Bw&index=1&feature=plcp

adam

Mastiffman · « **Reply #28 on:** August 05, 2012, 11:15:09 PM »

Quote from: birdhouse on December 26, 2011, 03:11:22 PM

old diary that i'm "keeping up"

so as of yet, the most i've seen out of this mill is 700w.

i need to re-do the yaw bearing with some delron plastic or something. it's not seeking the wind very well right now, and furling is screwy as well.

but here's some video of her running in the fog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bRWu5oZBSY&list=UUabajWb3cDP2fzWZCO4x2Bw&index=1&feature=plcp

adam

Thanks for the update and you have some BA property Brother!!! Anyway, I'm not completely sure where I saw that you have your yaw bearing? It looked like from the pics that I saw that you have a "cap" on the main pipe, where the 6/3 coming out... or am I'm not seeing properly...

Drew

dnix71 · « **Reply #29 on:** August 06, 2012, 07:04:59 PM »

Beautiful. Even at 70' it looks like it barely clears the trees. If any of those trees are close enough to fall on a guy wire, now is the time to do some topping.

birdhouse · « **Reply #30 on:** August 06, 2012, 10:39:46 PM »

andrew-
the yaw is a pipe over pipe type bearing. it's got two delrin bushings that can't be seen. it yaws beautifully once i got the delrin in.

dnix-
there are plenty of trees that could fall on a guy. NO way i'm gonna cut them all down. i'd have to cut 50+ trees down. it's a risk i'm willing to take. i do keep very close tabs on those trees and their needle color, angle ect. i won't hesitate to drop an injured tree. also, the soil up there is very rocky, so it's extremely rare to see a rootball overturned from the wind. all the trees that die (from drought?) get old, and worn, then finally, the wind has it's way with them. this is usually after all the limbs and bark have been blown off. then they snap near the bottom.

adam

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Author Topic: my first mill 8.5' servo (Read 10178 times)