Author Topic: VAWT new proto-type (Read 251206 times)

GoVertical · « **Reply #297 on:** July 25, 2011, 08:41:47 AM »

Hi, I am just really happy and surprised with the results, considering the size of the magnets and coils being used. It is a alternative fabrication technique that addresses two problem areas, RPM and power loss due to internal resistance. It does demonstrate that the lines of flux does form the pattern I suggested and internal resistance does decrease and output does increase as more stratum are added. I do like the modular fabrication method. What would be really helpful is finding a optimum coil size for this size magnet.
It is time to buy more coil wire, I hope the price did not increase by much. Comments welcome.

GoVertical · « **Reply #298 on:** July 25, 2011, 04:48:13 PM »

Quote from: dave ames on July 25, 2011, 04:01:15 AM

Hi Govertical,

That's some great progress in the PMA testing!

You were able to get some helpful insights in your companion thread topic:
http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,145678.0.html

Sometimes it gets a bit hard to follow with the topic spread out across the board like that..but you did get a measured mix of comments and that's the main thing.

Surely you have run into sparwebs helpful document:
http://www.sparweb.ca/Forum/AXIAL_FLUX_HowItWorks.pdf

Page 15 of sparwebs white paper shows our possible connections and it's a go to source for easy stator configuration. Hint: be sure to give every wire a letter or number designation..then it's just paint by numbers to wire it any way you choose.

An Interesting (if not controversial) project you have here and will continue to follow along.

cheers, dave

Hi, I tried the parallel Star on page 15. The illustration on page 15 shows no connection at the star center. I was able to double the output when I connected the star center together on all three of my stators. It may be a mis-print.

GoVertical · « **Reply #299 on:** July 25, 2011, 08:49:50 PM »

http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,129236.0.html

dates back to 2007

GoVertical · « **Reply #300 on:** July 26, 2011, 03:03:51 PM »

Road test results:

I used a 3 blade configuration. PMA cut in at 40 MPH. The blade hinge assembly broke at 50 MPH. Highest amp reading recorded was 0.53 amps dc. I was unable to test 6 blade configuration because of the damage that occurred during the 3 blade test.

Today's test revealed some problem areas that can be resolved by including a gear box, using larger magnets and coils, and designing a stronger blade hinge assembly. Comments welcome.

Bruce S · « **Reply #301 on:** July 28, 2011, 09:07:21 AM »

GoVertical;
What was the RPM of the PMA? that is more important at this point than the MPH of the wind/road test. Being that is will be a VAWT, these do have a self-limiting RPM/speed.
Still great work!!
Bruce S

DanG · « **Reply #302 on:** July 28, 2011, 01:34:27 PM »

Quote

these do have a self-limiting RPM/speed.

At the cost of sleeves and clamps.

GoVertical · « **Reply #303 on:** July 28, 2011, 03:33:07 PM »

Hi, the max RPM of the PMA during road test was 200 RPM. This number is being deduced by comparing amp reading during the road test and the data gathered during the bench test. I have redesigned the broken part and it will take a few days to do blade rotor repairs. Then I can test the 6 blade configuration. The problem areas have been identify and have solutions, now it is just fine tuning. Thanks for all the help I been receiving and enjoy the day.

GoVertical · « **Reply #304 on:** July 29, 2011, 08:59:39 AM »

Project update:
Connected stator A and B in series, then connected stator C in parallel with A and B
internal resistance = 1.9 ohms
using 12 volt battery as test load
Amps______RPM
0.006______100
1.46_______184
5.0________300

values measured using test fixture
Comments welcome, enjoy the day

12AX7 · « **Reply #305 on:** July 29, 2011, 01:20:33 PM »

Hello!

I wonder if you could post a couple of pictures or video of the hinge/blades showing one retracted and it's fully deployed position.
During it's rotation the blades extend and retract in a sort of "analog" movement? In other words, from the retracted location they slowly extend and then slowly retract? They don't "snap" out and "snap" back in again?.
If I understand their movement correctly as the turbine spins at any one time there is one blade at "max deployment" and the adjacent blades are in some degree of extension and retraction?

Have you finalized the blade profile and what limits the angle which the blades pivot?
What and where did you obtain the material for the blades?

I'm really impressed with the machining of your parts! It appears to me that you've put in mega hours just in the hinges alone.
You must have access to some might fine machining tools!

Thanks!
ax7

GoVertical · « **Reply #306 on:** July 29, 2011, 10:11:23 PM »

Hi, I have no training with aerodynamics. I use the removable pin hinge assembly to attach the blade to the spokes at four points. The distance between the hinge assemblies is shorter then the blade. The blade material is flat. I attach one side of the blade and then flex the blade to form the arc and then attach the other side, so the blade is attached to two spokes at 4 points and does not swing. By moving the hinge assemblies to different positions on the spokes will allow me to test different blade position angles to determine the optimum position for the highest RPM. The hinge assembly is the only way I could think to form the arc from the flat material and attach it to the spoke. I am redesigning the part that failed and hope to continue testing in the near future. The CNC router really is a time saver. I hope the pictures helps clear up my explanation.

[ Specified attachment is not available ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFzUGH_4RGw

GoVertical · « **Reply #307 on:** July 30, 2011, 05:15:04 PM »

Hi, added brace to prevent part failure. Enjoy the day.

GoVertical · « **Reply #308 on:** July 31, 2011, 06:21:31 PM »

Move inner edge of blade closer to outer end of spoke. I am trying to reduce amount of surface area exposed to head wind. Comments welcome

artv · « **Reply #309 on:** July 31, 2011, 07:08:25 PM »

Hi Go ....I know I've directed you to "Ed's" before , the Lenz 11 Turbine,.. he mentions that the best # of degree for the blade is 9.............I think, I'm not sure...Your blades look like they have too much curl to them ........
It looks like you can adjust the blades leading and trailing edges........beautiful work..........let the trailing edge flow out instead of curling..........just what I would try if adjustable.......I could be totally wrong ............artv

wolfe · « **Reply #310 on:** July 31, 2011, 08:34:06 PM »

Quote from: artv on July 31, 2011, 07:08:25 PM

Hi Go ....I know I've directed you to "Ed's" before , the Lenz 11 Turbine,.. he mentions that the best # of degree for the blade is 9.............I think, I'm not sure...Your blades look like they have too much curl to them ........
It looks like you can adjust the blades leading and trailing edges........beautiful work..........let the trailing edge flow out instead of curling..........just what I would try if adjustable.......I could be totally wrong ............artv

the 9degrees is for a lenz2 type blade, GV,s are more a modified savonius

GoVertical · « **Reply #311 on:** July 31, 2011, 08:36:28 PM »

Quote from: artv on July 31, 2011, 07:08:25 PM

Hi Go ....I know I've directed you to "Ed's" before , the Lenz 11 Turbine,.. he mentions that the best # of degree for the blade is 9.............I think, I'm not sure...Your blades look like they have too much curl to them ........
It looks like you can adjust the blades leading and trailing edges........beautiful work..........let the trailing edge flow out instead of curling..........just what I would try if adjustable.......I could be totally wrong ............artv

Hi, I think your right in your observation. The blade chord is to large. When I spin the new blade angle by hand I notice a lot less drag. I am going to try another road test to see if the number improve. If not I am going to try longer thinner blades with less pitch. How is project turning out, have you added any more coils?

GoVertical · « **Reply #312 on:** July 31, 2011, 08:49:47 PM »

Quote from: wolfe on July 31, 2011, 08:34:06 PM

Quote from: artv on July 31, 2011, 07:08:25 PM
Hi Go ....I know I've directed you to "Ed's" before , the Lenz 11 Turbine,.. he mentions that the best # of degree for the blade is 9.............I think, I'm not sure...Your blades look like they have too much curl to them ........
It looks like you can adjust the blades leading and trailing edges........beautiful work..........let the trailing edge flow out instead of curling..........just what I would try if adjustable.......I could be totally wrong ............artv
the 9degrees is for a lenz2 type blade, GV,s are more a modified savonius

Hi, I have no aeronautical design experience. I have been watching as many videos as I could find on you tube. The faster ones use less pitch. I am reduce to the trial and error method. Modify and test, and if the numbers improve than I am moving toward finding the optimum position. It still may not be fast enough. I have been thinking about adding a gear box or adding a Lenz or C rotor scope to the front of the blade. I am adding a fourth rotor to the PMA, that should help reduce the need RPM. It is just a experiment and I am learning a lot. Comments welcome, enjoy the day.

GoVertical · « **Reply #313 on:** August 01, 2011, 01:30:47 AM »

Hi, made a test cut of gear with shaft collar. It is possible. I do not know how well the material will hold up or much noise it will make. Due to the limitations of the CNC router, a 3 inch diameter is the smallest I can cut and the tooth size shown is also as small as I can cut. I have no M.E. training and any help will be greatly appreciated. I am trying to fabricate a planetary gear system with at less a 4:1 ratio. The software I have can generate the .dxf files needed. If anyone can advise what to avoid it would a great help. Comments welcome

GoVertical · « **Reply #314 on:** August 01, 2011, 04:26:10 AM »

After checking magnet prices I decided to try adding a gear box. Ring gear has 60 teeth and the planet and sun gears are 20 teeth. I still have to cut one planetary gear.

GoVertical · « **Reply #315 on:** August 01, 2011, 08:34:37 AM »

completed third planetary gear

12AX7 · « **Reply #316 on:** August 01, 2011, 10:03:41 PM »

wholly crap! that looks good!

A number of years ago I serviced a food processing machine that had gears made out of Acetal. Had to replace bearings, belts and other wearable parts (made of UHMW), however the acetal gears showed no sign of wear.
The yellow material, what is it? I've gotta ask.. what size raw material do you purchase and (I gotta) how much $$? I understand that there are more and more new types of HARD plastics..

ax7

Mark

GoVertical · « **Reply #317 on:** August 02, 2011, 05:48:22 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjMZ_-RmZcE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng1FRF_T4ck&NR=1&feature=fvwp

http://woodgears.ca/gear/index.html

Hi, I got the idea from the top two videos. I purchased the gear software from the third link. 18â€ x12â€ kitchen cutting board cost $10.00. This is a first attempt. I do not no how long it will last. It is a 3:1 ratio. Thanks for the info about the other material. The Sun gear will be mounted to the rotor drive shaft. I am cutting a new PMA top and the Planetary gears will be mounted with bearing and the Ring gear will be mounted to the bottom of the Blade rotor. I am adding another stator to the PMA. I deceased the pitch of the blades and with the Planetary gear added I should get better numbers with the next road test.

Tritium · « **Reply #318 on:** August 02, 2011, 05:16:15 PM »

You could always CNC your gears from foam and then do lost foam casting of a set in some aluminum, brass or bronze alloy.

Thurmond

GoVertical · « **Reply #319 on:** August 03, 2011, 05:22:46 PM »

update, the bolts that mount the planetary gears are not straight and cause cogging. I still have to attach the Ring gear to the blade rotor and run it on the lathe for a few hours. It just might work. Enjoy the day.

Volvo farmer · « **Reply #320 on:** August 03, 2011, 10:30:52 PM »

I gotta give you credit GoVertical. You've been working on this project for more than a year now and haven't made a single useable watt from it but you don't seem to know the meaning of the word "quit". You have made and re-made stators, rotors, wound coils, assembled bearings, tested, re-tested, made blades, gears, broke stuff, fixed stuff, and posted about the whole adventure.

If you really wanted to make electricity with the wind, I might tell you you've been doing it all wrong, but I think you're out do something else. I don't know what you're eventually going to accomplish with this project, but I have to admire your perseverance and dedication. Thanks for sharing with us.

12AX7 · « **Reply #321 on:** August 04, 2011, 01:49:29 AM »

You 'are' using shoulder bolts, right?

Though it wouldn't serve any special purpose, I'd not mind watching a video of your CNC making one of those gears

ax7

GoVertical · « **Reply #322 on:** August 04, 2011, 06:13:54 AM »

Hi, shoulder bolts may be the solution, thanks. The cut time for a gear on my CNC is very long, I got the idea from videos on you tube.

GoVertical · « **Reply #323 on:** August 04, 2011, 07:25:44 AM »

Quote from: Volvo farmer on August 03, 2011, 10:30:52 PM

I gotta give you credit GoVertical. You've been working on this project for more than a year now and haven't made a single useable watt from it but you don't seem to know the meaning of the word "quit". You have made and re-made stators, rotors, wound coils, assembled bearings, tested, re-tested, made blades, gears, broke stuff, fixed stuff, and posted about the whole adventure.

If you really wanted to make electricity with the wind, I might tell you you've been doing it all wrong, but I think you're out do something else. I don't know what you're eventually going to accomplish with this project, but I have to admire your perseverance and dedication. Thanks for sharing with us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEccgR0q-o

Hi, I don't want to be the first member to be harpooned on this forum. I have never built a turbine before and this is turning into a great learning experience. I have some 1â€x0.5â€ mag cylinders can you provide a link to PMA dual rotor project that uses the same size magnets? Sometimes it is the journey and not the destination. Being a producer is more challenging than being a consumer.

Madscientist267 · « **Reply #324 on:** August 04, 2011, 10:32:08 AM »

I agree.

This is definitely interesting. Keep it going, dude.

Steve

GoVertical · « **Reply #325 on:** August 04, 2011, 07:30:07 PM »

Hi, it is not perfect but for a first attempt it works better I than I accepted. When the ring gear is not installed it spins freely. After the ring gear is installed it binds in one location but stills spins easily. Noise is very low and when installed on top of the PMA all the gear should line up better. It does need some run in time on the lathe. Hopefully I can get it installed and test it over the winter. Enjoy the day.

GoVertical · « **Reply #326 on:** August 05, 2011, 08:10:27 PM »

Project update:
Installed gear drive on top of PMA. It spins very stiff. I think just from the force needed to spin manually I am going to have to fabricate much larger blades or make a smaller alternator. Comments welcome.

bj · « **Reply #327 on:** August 05, 2011, 09:17:51 PM »

Difficulty turning could be partially due to not enough lash (clearance) on the gear teeth. I know you like to do
fairly exact machining, and this might be a good place for a little "slop" in the gearset.
Just a thought.

12AX7 · « **Reply #328 on:** August 05, 2011, 11:37:16 PM »

I agree that your problem may be related to lack of clearance. At the risk of messing up your pretty work you might try spraying them with "something" maybe pattern bluing or ink. Spin the gears and inspect. See if you can see how the teeth mesh with each other. One trick I've seen was running a piece of aluminum foil through gears and check the impressions on the foil.

I doubt any type of grease would stick to the plastic, but just to prove the idea maybe a little grease will give a momentary reduction in drag?

The fact that your own manufactured gears mesh and turn at all (I think) is a fantastic success.

Maybe driving them with a drill press for a couple of hours will "break them in"

GoVertical · « **Reply #329 on:** August 06, 2011, 02:59:40 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDMdc07oWpk

Hi, just a quick video showing source of noise problem. Thank you for all the help I have been receiving. Enjoy the day

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Author Topic: VAWT new proto-type (Read 251206 times)