Dump load

[skravlinge]

Have anybody tried to store the excess power as compressed air? It could then be used by hand tools for example. You do not always need it as heat and/or when it is surplus.

[nothing to lose]

Might be worth a try if you need an aircompressor anyway, but what happens when the air tank is full pressure and you still need to dump the load? With a heating element it just keeps heating no problem, but your air tank has to shut down or explode eventaully.

Might be good to have the full airtank then switch to another dump load when the compressor shuts down maybe.

[ghurd]

Thought about it.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/10/6/11716/8670

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[ghurd]

Could just have it 'pop off', can't think of another word, but it is a pressure relief valve. The compressor just keeps going.

Thats how the Amish do it.

For the home, they hear the pop off they call it, then go shut the diesel down.

For large shops, the diesel runs steady all day. They use a lot of air. The excess air, if any, goes out of the pop off.

A waste, but it works.

See the link below.

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[skravlinge]

Was it really air-storing. In farmingr societies I think they use the excess power to  pump water, which is cheap to store until needed, instead of pump on demand.

[ghurd]

Farm water is not a problem in this area.

I have not seen anyone store water.

The Amish who are doing this use air powered water pumps, and many air powered tools. Drills to lathes to sanders. Larger tools, like planers, table saws, and ringer washing machines are usually gas powered.

To them, stored air is the same as stored water. The air is more versatile.

Maybe I should do a diary with pic's. It is quite interesting how they get things done.

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[skravlinge]

Really I dont know too much about them, I thought they  not using any modern stuff. Seen pictures with people looking as they did here 400 years ago. Got the feeling they do quite well, and the farming system is kind to the enviroment.

[mlz]

Doing it right now.  Have an automobil airconditioning compressor connected to the turbine.  When the batteries are charged, system simply engages the electric clutch and it starts compressing the air.  Now that I have my HPA tank back, I can compress to 4500 PSI, All of this then goes to a tesla turbine, we ran a test on it yesterday that put out 150psi, was running 4 3/4 hp induction motors.  We only had about 250 PSI of air through the whole system, so it only lasted about 5 minutes at that pressure.  Started losing speed at about 130psi.  If I lightended the load, would be able to run at lower regulator pressures.  1500watts for about 20 minutes off that tank.  Can't wait 'till she's charged all the way.

BTW, for presure control, just wire in a presure switch (Very expensive at HPA pressures) and have that connect the alternator to a regular dump load and shut down the compressor.

Note, HPA is nothing to play with.  If anything goes wrong with it, your going to want your will filled out.  I'm a certified airsmith, and I walk on egg shells with it.  Don't try to fill just any tank to anything more than 125psi, also, if your using an a/c compressor, make sure you cool off the air charge before it hits the tank.  An HPA tank MUST be kept below 150 deg F. to maintain it's rating.  Also in most states you MUST have a boiler operators license for anything over 5 gal and 125-150 PSI.

But it does work, and work well.

[troy]

Air is an interesting storage media for energy.  The advantage is lots of things can be had that run on air.  The disadvantage is that you must make a choice:

1.  Low pressure system (<150 psi or so). This is much safer and easier, but has very poor power density compared to flooded lead acid batteries.  If you want to have any meaningful amount of energy stored in there, you're talking a very big tank.  It also suffers from serious efficiency losses due to friction in the pipes unless you use relatively big pipe.
   
2.  High pressure system (say >1000 psi, and often 4-6,000 psi).  This makes the energy density for a given sized tank pretty good and you can use much smaller pipe without incurring poor performance.  You still have friction losses, but it's like voltage loss in 220 vs voltage loss in a 12V system.  The kicker is, as mentioned, if you don't know exactly what you're doing, you'll kill yourself or someone else.  If you have a 4000 psi tank of any significant size fail catastrophically, it will likely damage the whole building and whoever is in it.
   
   

Good luck, have fun, play safe!

troy  

[finnsawyer]

Yeah, I've kind of wondered about them.  They seem to embrace technology selectively according to what suits them.  Around here the government moved in some Mennonites.  I've had some dealings with them and am not impressed.  It seems they just exploit the land and then move on.  Not very good stewardship for what passes as a very religious community.

[ghurd]

Good and bad in every bunch I suppose.

What they can and can't use varies by church district. Rule of thumb, it can't be connected to the 'outside world', so no grid tie or gas lines. But there are areas where they are grid tied or use natural gas.

A guy who has DC CFL lights in the house may live accross the road from a guy in another district who can't have an electric light at all.

Schwartzentruber Amish take it to an extreme. They can't wear shoes til its below 40'F, no curtains or window screens, no white gas (like Coleman) lights, no engines, can't mow the lawn (sheep), no running water, no batteries at all (not even flashlights), only colors are black, white, and grey, go to jail rather than put a SMV (orange) triangle on a buggy, can't use a phone, can't ride in a car, can't let their animals ride in a truck to market....

Yikes!  Even the other Amish wonder about them.

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[finnsawyer]

Yeah, this idea of only being able to use the buggies in spite of the safety issues really gets me.  How many Amish have needlessly died because of that.  Pity.

Another thing is the construction of the buggies.  I'm pretty sure they use modern manufactured springs in their construction, which flies in the face of at least some of the Amish group's teachings.  Doesn't buying springs and bolts really mean connecting with the modern world?  What about the bearings and so forth?  My feeling is, be consistent and practice what you preach to it's ultimate logical conclusion.

[ghurd]

Wrecks are quite rare. They try to stay off the main roads. I think we are used to watching for them, and they have good lighting systems that show its a buggy from a long ways off. (just that one small group does the strange things, but thats what makes the news)

They actually make their own springs. Not each builder, but they have spring makers.

They are even making some fiberglass springs now. Kind of cutting edge.

Connected, to them, means connected. Wires connected from them to Niagra Power, or pipes to the pipe lines.

If each guy tried to make all the bolts he uses, he wouldn't be able to make enough money to pay his taxes. They pay the same taxes as everyone else.

They are consistent. Most people look at it from one side or the other, but they are looking at it more from the side. Thats the best I can explain it.

Strange but true...  

I make a living designing and manufacturing LED lighting systems for buggies and homes.  And solar power for anything. Cash registers to wheel chairs to breathing machines.

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