Author Topic: Bent Genny Part #4 - Posted  (Read 3028 times)

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FrankG

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Bent Genny Part #4 - Posted
« on: January 18, 2007, 12:59:34 AM »
The link below is the results of plotting numerous data samples between a Single Rotor, Single w/blank 2nd Rotor and lastly a full Dual Rotor.


http://www.theworkshop.ca/energy/bengen/4/bengen4.htm


I knew Flux was right along about using a dual rotor on such a small project, it just took me a while to actual prove it to myself.


FrankG

« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 12:59:34 AM by (unknown) »

tecker

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Re: Bent Genny Part #4 - Posted
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2007, 07:47:41 PM »
Two problems I can see from the pics .The core material exteneds through  the coil center causing the null to happen too soon . With a dual rotor the flux can't penetrate core segments and is shunted from the coil legs.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2007, 07:47:41 PM by tecker »

electrondady1

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Re: Bent Genny Part #4 - Posted
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2007, 09:01:29 PM »
great post frank, nice comparisons.

tecker may be right about the compound your putting in the center.

how about another"clean" stator with air coils this time.(easyer said than done right!) lol.

i promise not to come to your house frank, but i'm curious as to where your at.

just north of t.o.?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2007, 09:01:29 PM by electrondady1 »

gizmo

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Re: Bent Genny Part #4 - Posted
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2007, 09:35:46 PM »
Hi Frank


Its very true what you say about generating your own power using muscle makes you realise just how cheap electricity is. Its the same with fuel. I use about $5 per day to drive 40km. Now if I had to actually push the car 40km each day my myself, I would want a lot more than $5 for the effort!


We have a problem will water here in Australia, in some capital cities it is now illegal to wash your car or hose the garden! In the past water has been too cheap, and everyone used it like there was no tomorrow. Well tomorrow came around and we are running out of water. Maybe its time to start paying a realistic price for electricity and fuel.


If the price of electricty doubled, a lot of people would cut back, turn off the unused lights, etc. The load on the grid would drop, and the power stations would pump out less CO2.


Glad you found the PicLog so usefull.


Glenn

« Last Edit: January 17, 2007, 09:35:46 PM by gizmo »

willib

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Re: Bent Genny Part #4 - Posted
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2007, 10:06:09 PM »
well you did it!!

you got double your 100 watts !!


I've picked out the pertinent data for you , hope you dont mind?


one is the single magnet rotor

two is a single magnet rotor , But with a blank rotor

three is a dual rotor.


" "

 1)The key data points are that current starts to flow into a 12V load @ approx

280RPM and that the generator peaks out at 160watts @ 775RPM.

 2)Charging starts @ 190RPM and the generator peaks out 183Watts @ 670RPM

 3)The graph below is made up of 1115 data samples, with a marginally higher

cut-in or charging speed @ 230RPM (possibly from the stator being aligned

differently) but with a peak output of 203Watts @ 550RPM " "


was it possible ,the reason the cutin was higher with the dual rotor ,was the

batteries voltage was higher ? that would do it

i think what is more important is the peak watts and the RPM at peak. your peak

watts get progressivly higher , while your RPM at peak get progressivly lower.

very nice work

on a side note, with varible PWM you could dial in a comfortable charging rate

(pedaling rate) !

« Last Edit: January 17, 2007, 10:06:09 PM by willib »
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FrankG

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Re: Bent Genny Part #4 - Posted
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2007, 05:24:32 AM »
Tecker,


I think that you've confirmed my suspicions about the Magnetite, I thought about including a brief note about Hysterysis (sp?) but don't have enough of a clear understanding to make a complelling arguement.


A new stator is definately on the to-do list, though I'm saving my pennies for a Mig welder, and would really like to pick-up a spool of AWG#20 or #18 wire to track the improvement.


ElectronDady1,


You're more than welcome to come-out for a visit (there just aren't that many folks around here that are into RE or even DIY to exchange ideas with)...


Though I'm located 100Km North West of Ottawa, right on the edge of the Quebec border.


Gizmo,


I periodically check the BBC world service for news from a european perspective and ABC for the Australian perspective, as in Canada we are being fed a watery pap of sorts when it comes to alternative perspectives (or hard news).


What I've been hearing is that you folks are in the midst of one of the worst droughts in 200 years... As well (though unrelated to Water) your parlimant actually has tabled a "Peak-Oil" report...


As to the PicLog, it is the ultimate! I was explaining to one of the kids that a set-up like this was only found in research labs a few short years ago.


Although I want to get-back to finishing the CNC Blade Carver that has been stalled since last summer, I was thinking that your design as is could be easily adapted as a "Star/Delta Switch" with a minor change to the firmware. By using just the RPM sensor and using the MOSFet circuit from the "Load switch" it could toggle the relays. But it will have to wait...


WilliB,


Yes, the 100Watt mark was more of a mental barrier than a physical barrier... Over the last year I did have lots of solid advice on how to do this right (especially from this board) but I was too thick to follow it properly (the main thing from the word go was my hesitation at cutting the Mags in half, which ment that the poles were not spaced properly).


As to PWM for cadence control, it's not obvious from the pages but there are 10 speeds available betwen the cranks and the jack-shaft, I did reduce the gearing from 1:6.5 down to 1:5 when I installed the dual rotor, as it was just a bear to pedal at such a slow rate.


Though I'm currently working on a PWM circuit that will do the current limiting for the stepper drive circuit on the Milling machine. So I can see how it could be adapted to the generator.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 05:24:32 AM by FrankG »

tecker

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Re: Bent Genny Part #4 - Posted
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2007, 07:10:38 AM »
 What would be very interesting is to see if could log improvments by removing the core material from behind the coil bends leaving the portion at the legs . Maybe a small masonary bit in a drill press with depth set. A null will still set inside the core but the coil ends will be away from the flux developed .
« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 07:10:38 AM by tecker »

Ed Holt

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Re: Bent Genny Part #4 - Posted
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2007, 11:53:53 AM »
As always I am completely impressed with your progress and I for one am thankful for your careful documentation including your failures since I seem to learn more from my failures than successes.  I have a stationary bike in the basement and I was just wondering how long it takes to produce your 30 Watt/Hour session as an attempt to quantify the actual work being done at your test bed.  I have read of other pedal generators in the past and after reading about yours, I really like the idea of not just wasting all that energy and sweat.  Lately I have had a hard time motivating myself to go down and use the bicycle in the basement since there is no tangible product, after all I am still sitting in the same spot as when I started.  Right now, I am just trying to get in shape for better weather, when I can ride my bike  to work and thumb my nose at OPEC.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 11:53:53 AM by Ed Holt »

tecker

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Re: Bent Genny Part #4 - Posted
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2007, 06:49:33 PM »
I don't see a failure here at all .A really nice unit at a good cost .I want one. Improvments ?  maybe .Failure no way Quite the contrary. Monitoring and longing data

makes this project a cut above . great work  
« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 06:49:33 PM by tecker »

Ed Holt

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Re: Bent Genny Part #4 - Posted
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2007, 10:26:50 PM »
I was referring to some other postings on is web site dealing with earlier experimentation...  I agree this one was a complete success.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 10:26:50 PM by Ed Holt »

tecker

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Re: Bent Genny Part #4 - Posted
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2007, 04:32:25 AM »
10 /4
« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 04:32:25 AM by tecker »

FrankG

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Re: Bent Genny Part #4 - Posted
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2007, 10:23:23 AM »
Tecker,


I think Ed's refering to the gen I attempted last year right around this time... It's still painful to look at it hung-up by the ceiling... Ha!


Ed, I cranked 40Watt/Hrs last night in the span of 45 minutes, for now the idea is to try and keep the gauge between 60 - 90 watts for as long as I can (4 to 5 minutes) and then idle at 30 to 40 watts for as long as it takes to attempt another higher burst of speed.


My wife picked-up a cheap Pedometer with "Pulse Function" (essentially an IR sensor & counter circuit I'm sure), that I use to ensure that I get the old blood flowing.


Aswell I have a friend that is a respirologist that would be willing to run a series of VO2 tests (Oxygen Volume sensor)... The idea being to see how efficiently you consume Oxygen, relate it to your pulse and the power output of the genny.


But that's pretty fanciful at this point as I'm starting to get heavily back into the Gen-3 Mill.

 

« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 10:23:23 AM by FrankG »