Author Topic: Resistance heating  (Read 5572 times)

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Dave B

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Resistance heating
« on: February 25, 2006, 07:12:23 AM »
I will in the near future be planning a more powerful alternator and of course larger blades 18-20 ft. diameter max. This will be specific to generating heat with resistive loads (most likely hot water). I am currently running a 12' single phase w/ laminants that can run 1 kw 40 vac at 25-30 mph wind 350-400 rpm. this into a variable load heating elements. My design ideas are wide open for the new alternator and with the trend going larger and dual rotors etc. I figured the experienced out there could offer suggestions toward a heating application rather than battery charging. Thanks in advance for any advice,   Dave B.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 07:12:23 AM by (unknown) »
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Flux

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2006, 01:27:04 AM »
Dave

Requirements for heating are different. At that size you may find the dual rotor is the only type you can easily manufacture and that could decide the issue. It is certainly fine for the job.


You aren't bothered about the light winds, there is no power there and if it doesn't start until 10 mph you will loose nothing.The case against slotted stators is not very strong in this case, except that using standard converted motors you will need a gearbox and all the problems associated with it.


If you want to go to a large diameter iron core with many poles you will have trouble finding a core unless you use part of a stack from an incredibly large motor and then the slots will be too deep as it will be a low pole count.


Even though you may save cost on magnets the thing will be heavier than a dual rotor. To make a special core would cost the earth so I would fall back on the dual rotor.


You should let the volts rise with speed and keep efficiency right up so the issue of stator heating is much less of a problem.


Single phase is convenient for control but in every other sense is objectionable so I would stick with 3 phase.

Flux

« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 01:27:04 AM by Flux »

Dave B

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2006, 02:11:48 AM »
Thanks Flux,

   I'm leaning toward the dual rotor but have no experience with it yet and see little here for those using it for heat instead of charging batteries. It will run at a lower TSR for that diameter and I am willing to put the time and work into the blade construction to squeeze the power out of the swept area efficiently to the alternator. I have often felt that most built here are mis-matched with high speed blades mounted to low rpm alternators. Obviously the reason is two fold, ease of blade construction and charging batteries is a different animal from resistance heating so for the most part it works, I'll be making some changes from the norm for my application. I'm having a hard time thinking 3 phase AC will be more efficient than single phase for this type of application. Any thoughts and ideas on this are much appreciated.  Dave B.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 02:11:48 AM by Dave B »
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Flux

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2006, 02:33:02 AM »
Dave

I don't think there is much wrong with the blades as normally used.


Remember they are aiming for a cut in speed that would be pointless for heating. I would keep similar blades and wind the alternator for a higher speed. you will have at least 50% increase in speed in high winds over the battery charging machines and if you think that that will be too noisy you may have to accept a lower tsr and a significantly larger alternator.


Also if you insist on single phase the equivalent alternator will be 50% bigger for the same output. If you keep the same size then efficiency will be well down.


There is no doubt that 3 phase makes the control circuits more difficult so you have to make the choice. You could rectify and use the heaters on pwm dc if you are up to it but that is quite involved electronics and not play stuff.

Flux

« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 02:33:02 AM by Flux »

zubbly

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2006, 05:55:43 AM »
hi DaveB!


i did once make a genny just for the purpose of heating elements. was made from a 3 phase motor. i did custom wind it. out put was 242 volts 3 phase, 12 pole, @ 600 rpm.


connected it to a 3 phase heating element arrangement which yielded 4700 watt. voltage dropped to 205 volt under load. load was maintained for 20 minutes with no sign of heating of the genny, and no cooling was applied to the unit. trying to increase speed for more output just caused the breaker to trip out on the 5hp dc motor that was driving it.


your 3 phase output can be easily rectified to dc, and the dc can be used to power single phase heating elements such as in hot water tanks.


you can design the genny for what ever voltage you want at any realistic rpm. mine was to be used with prop mounted directly. the unit has since been sold.


just a tip. if you do wish to convert a larger 3 phase motor, try to get the core from a "premium eff" motor. they have much larger stator slots and hold much more wire. mine was a "hico" motor, which used to be westinghouse. bearings are huge and will carry a 16 foot prop no problem. i had used 48 1 inch round by 1/2 inch thick magnets.


also, if you bbring out sufficient leads from the winding, you can have a large selection of connections you could use for either battery charging or higher voltage element heating. your possible connections with a 12 pole are 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, or 12 circuit star and delta all from the same machine. how could you get more universal than that.


here is a link to that project.  "jam" is the current owner of the unit. i do not know if it has gone into service.

http://www.reresource.org/User%20Pages/jam/25-Dec-2004/


hope this helps you make a decision on what type of genny to use.


have fun!  :)


zubbly

« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 05:55:43 AM by zubbly »

willib

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2006, 08:46:47 AM »
flux is right , a single phase machine is not only bigger ie. more copper , but there is a definate pulsing action during operation, where three phase is inherently smoother and needs less copper, for the same output.

Dave , think about a using a large dia wire , three phase machine .

and also think about running a single heating element off of each phase , this will give you the best heating ie, no rectifier losses , good luck in your adventures.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 08:46:47 AM by willib »
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jimovonz

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2006, 09:10:38 AM »
Depending on the likely/target temp of the water, there is nothing stopping you from using the heatsink from your rectifier as an element too! Better yet, if its a thermally conductive tank, bolt the rectifier right too it, then there are no rectifier loss issues.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 09:10:38 AM by jimovonz »

Dave B

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2006, 11:59:34 AM »
Thanks for the tips guys. I'm leaning toward a dual rotor for ease of construction and all the work done here with them is gaining my confidence for reliability. I'll just keep waiting and watching as the larger units out there get some of the bugs out and maybe some will be heating with them soon. If not I'll help pave the way also. My tilt tower has been my ongoing project now and between the weather and work schedule it's slowed down but moving forward, I'll post photos of that soon. Any other suggestions on heating with wind or hearing from anyone else doing it would be appreciated. Thanks again,  Dave B.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 11:59:34 AM by Dave B »
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wdyasq

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2006, 12:34:28 PM »
There are 'conversions' that have been flying since before Hugh Piggot thought of making windturbines.  Many are in areas where folks do not have access to the internet or care.


I think one of the great attributes of the axial flux mill is they are "homebuilt" and the technology is "crowbar and hammer". The electric motor is a strange thing we have just replaced all these years and never learned what makes them work.  


I hope to be doing some conversion work in the near future.  I have been destroying a few 3PH motors just to see what makes them work.  Did you know a 5HP Baldor motor has 3.8kg of copper wire in it? According to Zubbly's numbers - if the copper is similar, that means .8kg copper per kW power.  THAT is an impressive number.


Well, just wanted to mention conversions may be as reliable as the axal fulx mills.  They will take some machine work and may be better suited for some than others.


Ron

« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 12:34:28 PM by wdyasq »
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Nando

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2006, 01:56:16 PM »
DanB:


I am going to open my mouth, I mean, my keyboard.


If you are planning to make a large wind mill for heating, my first suggestions is to have a high voltage @ peak RPM, like 380 Volts @ 300 RPM.


I will assist you with a simple heater controller with MPPT capable of handling the kilowatts you desire or need, this with multiple load stages and medium frequency frontal PWM stage, the other loads ON/OFF.


I have a MPPT circuit capable of 4 loads defined by the MosFets or Triacs ( DC or AC) with the frontal or primary load to be DC PWM -- or -- AC PWM --BUT AC PWM is a bit more difficult and the user needs to understand AC behavior to avoid Head aches and 4 letter words


At the same time this wind mill may have the capability of producing the same electrical energy for other uses with an additional controller.


3 phase would be the logical generator construction to reduce vibration and to have a more stable heating system.

Simple addition of small opto couplers solve most of the 3 phase problems, or the addition of a 6 phase rectifier if overall heating single point is required.


Many people think that the electronics for a 3 phase is large and difficult, not so, from simple step loading to PWM ( best indeed) can be done.


With the semiconductors presently available and their quality so high it is natural to use them for lower cost over all design.


A good large wind mill greater than 5 KW is the use of a small 10 or 12 poles 3 phase motor ( 7.5 HP + ) with a small PMG high voltage generator ( 1/15 of the motor power) to produce the magnetic field for the motor and both coupled to the same power shaft and a small AVR on that shaft to control the output voltage -- no brushes of any kind --.


Done properly, the small PMG is used to start the phase motor to produce energy (any time it needs to start the production)and after that the motor itself produces the necessary energy for the AVR to control and regulate the output power -- it is not "eternal" energy --


LIKE the DUNLITE wind mill but modern ideas and parts.


Regards


Nando

« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 01:56:16 PM by Nando »

oztules

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2006, 03:13:08 PM »
well nando,


Thats a big bag full of goodies, and would be a worthy project to describe. I don't know how it would be best presented, but you have always pushed the idea of mppt control, pwm control etc. Maybe it's time to be more specific on the claims. Some pics perhaps of what some of the things your alluding to (if you have built any at this time) would go a way towards bringing then into the mainstream of conversation at least.


It may well be time to move forward with some more technical oriented builds, just to broaden the base of knowledge that the Dans have blessed us with.


This dimension would round the forum off with projects from the most basic survival power plant, to the more sophisticated variety.


If you could spare the time to do this kind of thing, I for one would like to see it. You have been nibbling around the edges with this kind of thing for some time, maybe it's project time.


Hope to see something soon..............oztules

« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 03:13:08 PM by oztules »
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DanB

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2006, 06:54:03 PM »
Im not so sure about that Ron...  your dividing 3.8kg by 5hp but ignoring rpm.  A 5KW wind turbine needs to generate that sort of power at pretty low rpm.  Unless your gearing things up - I expect the alternator will need to be much heavier.


Look at the size/weight of things like the ARE 2.5 KW machines, and the Bergey Xcell (10 KW about 800 pounds).  I dont think conversion weigh that much less...  maybe more.  Laminates can definitely make better use of magnetic material.


That said - I dont disagree... converting motors is certainly a good way to go especially for heating I expect.  But it can probably get tricky to get the speed and the power curve of an existing motor right unless you rewind it.  I think zubbly has found some things that work well - but like anything... there  are a million things that wont work well and it takes a ton of trial and error to figure that stuff out unless you follow someone elses 'proven' plan.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 06:54:03 PM by DanB »
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domwild

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2006, 11:48:19 PM »
Nando,


Been reading your posts and find them interesting. commanda is also interested in MPPT and PWM. Glenn Littleford has built a Picaxe-based system, but I find it a bit hard to read without comments in his code.


If it is not too much trouble, a circuit diagram or the software design in pseudocode would be appreciated.


I know this is a tall order.


Assuming a 12V battery, is the pseudocode for battery charging something like this:


If battery voltage during charging is greater than 14.4 VDC, then stop charging??


So much to learn, so little time!

« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 11:48:19 PM by domwild »

Flux

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2006, 01:52:01 AM »
Just a few more comments. I agree that for heating there is no point in using low voltage, it seems sensible to choose at least 120v heaters and in Europe the choice would be 240. This means that you set the maximum alternator voltage at this figure  for full output. I wouldn't be tempted to go higher, line losses are no real issue and keeping water out and insulation generally becomes worse with voltage.


A machine with slotted iron core will have less magnet and copper cost but i am not sure that it will be smaller or lighter. With neos you can push the boundaries a bit, but with conventional field windings low speed alternators become very large in diameter and quite heavy. Converted induction motors tend to run quite a lot faster than the dual rotor machines and almost invariably commercial wind generators run faster than the slow and leisurely stall limited dual rotors.


There is no reason why you cant push the speed up on a dual rotor and increase its output considerably if you are willing to live with the noise of high speed props and also do the necessary testing to make sure they are safe. If you want to stick to the low speeds then the slotted stator designs will become big and heavy and you will have a difficult time finding suitable punchings. If you take part of a core from a very large small pole number induction motor the slots will cause large leakage inductance with large pole numbers. You may get away with it with neo but for those suggesting conventional wound field technology the specific output will be very low. That's why gearboxes were almost universal before the introduction of neo.


I can't see any point in a brushless alternator( other than pm)for heating. For a pma volts rise with speed and wind speed, power goes up as V^2 so we need to bang a few extra heaters in as the wind picks up. Why do we need complicated heavy and expensive alternators to incorporate an avr that is not needed. If we hold volts constant we need to bang in even more heaters and have increased copper loss.


I go with reasonably high voltage and I go with electronic switching of the heaters but for the alternator keep it simple. Sometimes I find we are proposing things that would give the average engineer a 10 year development program and a major manufacturing issue. Fine if that is your business but the average person here will only have a possible chance of success with something basic and simple. I am amazed that folks from a non engineering background are managing to push these things in size to the point they are doing, that would never have happened if they had to design conventional wound field alternators.


Mppt near enough is easy with heating, no need for microcontrollers and all the digital technology, if that's your line of business again its fine but you can do it without.

« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 01:52:01 AM by Flux »

Dave B

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2006, 11:14:03 AM »
I really want to keep it simple. I've even realized that unloaded start up may not be necessary with proper loads and switching I can squeeze useful power near stall (over time) from low winds and still know when the wind picks up it will accelerate to the next switched load. Simple is good, if it's going around it's adding heat. I do want to keep the  max rpm low depending on diameter to 300 rpm or less. I have learned how low wind performance can be greatly improved by carving the large drop at the root as the calcs. indicate. (some may argue this but the numbers are there for a reason, if you haven't tried it ... ) of course many are charging batteries and shooting for a cut-in rpm which until then it's free wheeling anyway and this lower rpm torque may not be as important. It's an interesting subject and I do agree that if there are proven controller circuits out there and you are willing to share I would really like to see something, if not, keep watching the board as others will be posted soon I'm sure. Thanks to everyone for your suggestions, I guess my big question is to go for high voltage or low (the low voltage heating elements make this seem attractive although quite pricey.)  Dave B.  
« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 11:14:03 AM by Dave B »
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willib

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2006, 11:51:22 AM »
Dont want to contradict anything said previously, but why not wind your stator for the lowest resistance reasonably attainable .

because your heating requirements dont need a specific voltage .

and I^2(R) produces heat , good and bad  ..

for your needs the good power is going to your heaters .

and the bad power is lost in your stator , so the lower your stator resistance the better off you will be..
« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 11:51:22 AM by willib »
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Nando

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2006, 02:15:46 PM »
Zubby:


I have a friend interested in such generator, can you connect with me directly to see if we can order one from you.


My heading has my address


Thanks and Regards


Nando

« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 02:15:46 PM by Nando »

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2006, 02:49:36 PM »
Flux:


Indeed not need of a microprocessor to attain MPPT heating or even charging power.


Microprocessor may need many hours to attain the algorithm for a wind mill that needs updating for each new wind mill with a minor different characteristic, unless one has a fully equipped lab.


With a simple PLC we have used a 6 meter mill to harvest heating energy in England for the last few months, a house farm about 2 miles away from the lower west coast.


The simple programming produced a very close MPPT harvesting, enough to keep the house warm during winter, around 25+ KWH/day.


We discovered that the generator sold as a 5 KW capable, was REALLY 2.5 KW limited.


For DanB idea, the push to higher voltage is worthy because the heating elements for 230 are low in cost, in USA, a water heater 2500 watt, 230 volts element can be bought for about 7 to 10 dollars -- HOME DEPOT -- well aware since the last 2 days I have been replacing my water heater that blew few days past ITS warranty time -- the damage, new carpets for at least 3 bedrooms, in reality I am getting a new carpet for the whole house.


To attain true MPPT harvesting with easy, a good wide generator range is needed, like around 300+ volts at peak RPM and Power, then the rest is easy, The controller would be a MPPT until it reaches 300+ volts and after that it becomes an ELC for 2 reasons, maximum power harvesting and limiting the generator to maximum RPM until the furling point to be reached.


Simple controller with just 8 low cost Integrated circuits driving either MosFets (all phases loading) or Triacs ( each phase loading)= a bit more complicated because the variable frequency of the generator.


The generator needs to have low value winding resistance to limit the generator power dissipation to a maximum of 10 % of the over all generated power.


The only thing left is to motivate DanB to see the light at the end of the tunnel.


I even offered to build a prototype for the heating controller.


Nando

« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 02:49:36 PM by Nando »

scoraigwind

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2006, 02:52:02 PM »
Heating is nice because you can work at variable voltage - low voltage in low winds and high in high winds - which suits the alternator windings better and allows the blades to speed up as they prefer to do in higher winds.  the systems I ahve done used multiple small heaters each with recitifiers.  Each rectifier is fed from triacs off the wind turbine 3-phase.  Each pair of triacs is operated by optocouplers off a circuit that works by frequency (speed).  So heaters come on as it speeds up.  http://www.scoraigwind.com/circuits


Lately we have been using this on a dual rotor axial flux alternator http://www.scoraigwind.com/nirvana/

We charge batteries too using 3 transformers and a heater or two in series to allow for wider speed range and a really low battery charging cut-in speed.


You can't really connect the heaters direct and get the best performance all round.  the blades will stall in low winds or overspeed in high winds.  


Apparently, geared induction motors work quite nicely on heating wind turbines too.  You need to be clever with capacitors to exctie them over the range of speeds though.

« Last Edit: February 28, 2006, 02:52:02 PM by scoraigwind »
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willib

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2006, 06:49:23 PM »
"You can't really connect the heaters direct and get the best performance all round.  the blades will stall in low winds or overspeed in high winds."


couldnt you use  a delta-wye switch ? best of both worlds

use your freq. counter  to switch between the two..


has anyone ever actually tried using relays to switch between star(wye) and delta?

i know Ed has the schematics to do it , but i'm not sure if he actually tried it?

« Last Edit: February 28, 2006, 06:49:23 PM by willib »
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Flux

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2006, 11:45:13 AM »
I don't think you followed what Hugh meant. There is no one load that works all the way up.

You can switch things about to make it work, but star delta would be backwards and also far too big a step. If you did star delta in the normal way you would stall even worse at cut in and run away totally in high wind.


Star delta can work for battery charging with small machines but is very rough with large ones.

Flux

« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 11:45:13 AM by Flux »

dinges

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2006, 12:21:36 PM »
Your comment got me wondering...


I think that for maximum POWER transfer, source and load impedance should be matched. That is, in this case, resistance of the alternator should be about equal to that of the resistive heating element. I think we can safely ignore inductive and capacitive reactance here.


When load impedance/resistance is higher, you get voltage transfer;

When load impedance/resistance is lower, you get current transfer.


The goal is here to transfer the maximum amount of power. This is what I thought of after a short time thinking about the matter, but if I'm very mistaken, I'd like to know.


Peter.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 12:21:36 PM by dinges »
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dinges

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2006, 12:24:02 PM »
Willib, I seem to remember we once had a discussion about this, with me suggesting minimum resistance in the stator. Somehow, I have managed to get myself really confused now...


Peter.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 12:24:02 PM by dinges »
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willib

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2006, 09:06:01 PM »
you're not wrong  ..

for maximum power transfer the load resistance should equal the source resistance.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 09:06:01 PM by willib »
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willib

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2006, 09:14:16 PM »
How would it be backwards ?

connected in star the turbine starts to turn.

after it gets up to a predetermined  speed it switches to delta .

when the wind slows down it switches back to star.. ..
« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 09:14:16 PM by willib »
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Dave B

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2006, 09:32:29 PM »
Here's my challange. A simple circuit that switches loads depending on speed or voltage and yet is self powered so that in case of power failure (most likely in windy stormy weather when you would like to generate power unless it's too bad) you don't overspeed because you were relying on the (grid line) load circuit to limit the speed also. I know it would be easy to have a N-O AC or battery relay controlling the circuit and at power failure switch the load(s) on effectively slowing or shutting down the generator but that defeats the purpose. I want self contained safety, efficiency and reliability. No batteries or mechanical relays if possible. Asking too much ? I know there are circuit buffs out there that could figure this out, I'd even buy it if you could prove it out. Thank you for any responses.  Dave B.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 09:32:29 PM by Dave B »
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hvirtane

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2006, 03:05:26 AM »
Hugh said:

Apparently, geared induction motors

work quite nicely on heating

wind turbines too.

You need to be clever with capacitors

to excite them over the range

of speeds though.


That is the way how 'old school people'

have made their machines for heating.


I know here one man with a very simple

system with only relays to switch

the load on and off. His machine has got

special very heavy stainless steel

blades of 12 m.





Kauko Kirmanen's machine.

12 m stainless steel blades.


I'm working with another Friend of mine

to get his machine working again.






Erkki Nousiainen's machine.

Now with 8,5 m special wood blades.


- Hannu

« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 03:05:26 AM by hvirtane »

Flux

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2006, 02:12:01 AM »
Why do you want maximum power transfer, at that point you only have 50% efficiency in your load. Unless you can extract the heat from the alternator you are wasting half the energy.


You need to keep the alternator efficiency as high as possible and capture most of the heat in the load. It makes best use of the power from the prop and prevents the alternator burning out.  It does cost a fair bit more than working at maximum power transfer but it is worth the extra alternator cost and if you go for serious power it is the only practical way. Power station alternators run above 98% efficiency and still need special cooling.

Flux

« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 02:12:01 AM by Flux »

scoraigwind

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2006, 02:41:51 PM »
"I want self contained safety, efficiency and reliability. "


We'd all like that  ;-)


In the real world I like to have an over-voltage trip in case things don't go as planned.


You can find PWM voltage clamping circuits that do quite a good job using MOSFETs or IGBTs.  But you have to be pretty clever to make them work reliably.

« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 02:41:51 PM by scoraigwind »
Hugh Piggott scoraigwind.co.uk

Dave B

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2006, 09:00:11 AM »
Thanks Hugh and others with comments and suggestions. I guess my biggest concern is the safety factor if and or when you loose the load. It's tricky to adjust the furling to squeeze the power and yet allow that measure of safety if things let loose. Maybe like you say an over voltage trip somehow would be good besides. Any other schematics or sketches of ideas that anyone is using out there for self contained overspeed protection would be great to see. It's pretty amazing the acceleration when you're really cranking out the power and switch off the load. Thanks again,  Dave B.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 09:00:11 AM by Dave B »
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Flux

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2006, 09:47:55 AM »
Dave

The simplest over voltage limit is to rectify the output( whether you need it or not for the heating ) and connect a thyristor (SCR) across it. You connect a zener( string of zeners probably) from dc + to zener cathode, connect zener anode to thyristor gate.


If volts exceed zener voltage the thyristor will turn on and crowbar the machine to a stop. May be a bit less violent to include a resistor in the anode circuit of the thyristor low enough to hold the machine in stall but still relieve some of the shock.


Flux

« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 09:47:55 AM by Flux »

SmoggyTurnip

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2006, 10:17:53 AM »
Would this not burn out the stator in high winds?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 10:17:53 AM by SmoggyTurnip »

Flux

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Re: Resistance heating
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2006, 11:35:26 AM »
No as long as the alternator efficiency is high and you stall it hard enough it ought to just crawl slowly.


Also it is a last resort not normal operating mode and is far better than something going frantic with no load. I still couldn't live without some mechanical furling to stop it but I seem alone in that.

Flux

« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 11:35:26 AM by Flux »