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ghurd

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Camping RE in Use
« on: August 21, 2005, 08:56:27 PM »
Just to get your attention...





Sunrise from the cabin.


This place is, well, "Remote".  The cabin is the light spot out the window of a 1956 'Beaver' seaplane. No corner store for batteries and film!

The 4 of us have the whole lake, no one else for miles! About 15 or 20% shows in the photo.

It is kind of a very strange feeling the first few times, when the plane leaves for a week or more. Weather permitting.


You ARE on your own!


If you didn't bring it, you ain't got it. Period.

There is no BS like "I forgot the matches." That's just too bad. Figure something out.  Maybe boat gas and a spark plug?




Not exactly roughing it, but not the Ritz-Hilton either.

Fully equipped with an outhouse, "Running Water" as the outfitter, Olivier Brossard says, "You run down to the lake and get it!", an unplumbed sink, a (formerly) air tight wood stove for heat, propane stove, lights and 'fridge.

Always brand new motors for the boats and the water pumps (for cabins equipped with water), so there is no need for spare parts. There are extra boat motors just in case. Cabins with a water pump have full plumbing with flush toilets, a hot water shower, etc.  We just chose a lake without that stuff this time.

The dock, boardwalk, etc are cut from pine with a chainsaw and they do it great!  The unlevelness is because of the footing shifting and I'm sure it was very level when it was new. The wood lasts a very long time too, as proven by the dated graffiti of previous fishing successes.

The raised upside down boat on the left recieved new life as the wood shed roof. Now that's recycling!

Almost all vegetation below waist high is blueberries and rasberries. Pancakes!


"Paradise in the Bush!"





About the water...


We use a small ceramic water filter now.  

We bought it maybe 10 years ago when my daughter was young for her first trip, just in case.  It came with a 2" x 6" ceramic filter and sponge cover, about a foot of half inch hose (intake) and a foot of 1/4" hose (output), and a large syringe with a metal ball for a valve.  

The idea is too pull up very slowly to suck water through the ceramic filter into the syringe, then push the clean water out through the small hose.

I'll just say that takes a LONG time and a LOT of work involving at laest 2 people, maybe 3, for half an hour, to get enough water for a pot of coffee. So we gave up.

We just drank water from the lake. It never hurt us before.


BUT

we found out, in a  comical  fashion involving the mop, that a siphon will do just fine.  The following year I changed the intake hose to about 3 feet long, changed the output hose to about 2' long, and added a couple clothes pins and rubber bands.

The largest pan available is the raw lake water, the next largest pan is the filtered water. The lake water pan is set as high as is practical, the filtered water pan is set as low as is practical the pump syringe is started (hold straight up and down for the ball to seat, getting out all the air bubbles too), and more water than 4 people can use for coffee and cooking is made.  Drip drip drip will addd up to some water!

Ceramic filtered water still has a 'color', but that goes away with the addition of coffee. Hehe.

When the water output slows significantly it is time to clean the filter. Most filters like this come with a scratchy pad to do it.  Just scrub off the ceramic part, and rinse out the sponge part. Then get the siphon going again with no bubbles in the hose.


That $1 worth of hose makes a $25 water filter into something people will use, instead of just a novelty.  Don't forget the clothes pins and rubber bands to hold things in position.  And don't let the lake water run low or the siphon will stop.


I do have a water filter photo but it looks like 2 guys cooking.


OK.

On to the solar stuff.

The 4 little multi-crys PVs are rated 4V and 100ma, double glass I think. Maybe from high end garder lights?

They were wired 2 series pairs for 6V (4 Ni-Mh AA's) and charge at about 170ma under decent conditions.  I had big plans for a fancy 3 way switch connecting them for 340ma 3V, 170ma 6V, and (marginal) 75ma 12V use, but ran out of time. Just added a diode and 4 AA holder.


The grey framed PV is a Russian mono-crys great for 3V or 4.5V charging at about 280ma. We were taking nothing needing 3 rechargable batteries, so added a diode and 2 AA holder.


We took maybe 800 photos and even with the 4 AA battery eating digital mega-zoom camera, and the 2 AA digital battery eater, we never got the 'spare, emergency' alkalines out.  I'd call that success. My wife takes pictures, that's for dang sure!

But I'm not at all surprised as this is not the first time for some of this equipment.





For the 12V needs there were 3, 12V 100ma PVs on a fiberglass backing. All had output jacks added. A couple 'adaptors' with diodes and clips allowed for these to charge everything we had, and even in parallel with the other PVs.

We really had no need of these as the 12V 7AH battery was sure to power the sonar / fish finder, and the "stereo" for the whole trip.  The stereo was a 12VDC pair of computer speakers connected to a MP3 player, which we used for about 2 hours total.

I did charge the 12V 7AH once, just for good measure.

I also set up a do-hicky to charge the camcorder from the 12V PVs, but with being busy, we did not use the camcorder enough to require any charging.


Everything got rained on... a lot. The 12V PVs are sealed. The 6V array seems to be at least very water resistant.  The Russian PV collects water inside like a beaver dam, but seems none the worse for wear.


The 12V PVs are no longer available but I wish they still were, the Russian PV was from H.F. and is very extremely high priced for the watts (improperly listed) but of decent quality, and the 4V 100ma PVs are surplus ($7 ea / $3.50ea on sale from the electronic goldmine).


The rechargable batteries were 1 set and 1 spare set for the 2 AA camera, 1 set and 2 spare sets for the 4 AA camera, and 4 spare set of 4 AA's just in case. All about 2000mah.  There were always a 2 AA set and a 4 AA set charging on the right PVs. And sometimes another set charging on the 12V PVs mostly because I was board waiting for lunch or something, and not because they really needed charging.





I finally gave up on the pocket windmill.

Not because of the blades which I expected to be a problem (Zub-Woofers were great), or the mechanics (it would fit in my pocket).  Most of it was made of firewood and hotdog sticks. But because I could not find a stepper motor that would make any real power to charge AA batteries.

The first 3 days were VERY windy. Just like our friends said if I did not bring a windmill!

So much that it was almost dangerous in a boat. Maybe 25MPH substained.  Windiest I ever saw in many trips to the region. But the cabin is set up in a protected area so a windmill on the end of the dock would have been about useless.  Very good planning on the builders part(probably Georges Brossard, google him if you are bored, he is an amazing man, great bush pilot, friend, and fisherman! He really likes 'bugs'. The best parts of his life are maybe only availiable in French.)


Overall


The most stunning solar surprise, for me at least, was the silly "Solar Shower".

Just a heavy plastic bag with one black side and one almost clear side, a hose with a on off valve and a sprinkler showerhead, and the "temperature could reach 105'F" (yea. right. whatever.). Lay it flat in full sun and the water gets hot? Is 105'F enough for a shower? Not hot enough for me!  Well, it did get hot, and more than 105'F for sure!

Is 5 gallons enough for a shower? My shower is rated at 3 gallons a minute, and I have a LOT of hair.  I certainly don't want to get my hair full of shampoo and run out of hot water (call me names, but I do not want to be clean if it involves being cold).


I was the first to give it a try. First just the hair. Boy, that is hot! Next a full body rinse. There is still water left? So the full shower with soap and an extra good rinse. Still water left? My wife washed her hair, then shaved her legs (she'll kill me if she reads this!).

The other couple arrived back at the cabin, and after hearing my review, she washed her hair and shaved her legs (she'll kill me too). Then he had a good scrub down but not a full shower, and washed his hair (his hair doesn't take much water). Yes, he is clothed from the waist down. But I could photo shop some of the original images... Hmmm... Blackmail?

The solar shower bag heated faster when set on a insulated flannel shirt for insulation, and it was quite sunny and about 82'F that particular day. Another cloudy and cool day I added hot water from the stove.


To make a long story even longer, There was plenty of warm water in the first 5 gallons, for all of the above. I am sure everyone (except me because I was first and didn't expect much!) tried to conserve, but 5 gallons can go a long way!




I have a 'charge controller' for the PVs. My wife and our friends call it "The Octopus" and everyone is afraid to mess with it, even just to change batteries. Just a bunch of Zener based controllers in a single box, with multiple in and outputs for preset voltages.  Too many choices if you don't understand what it does and how it does what it does.  I thought it was KISS because all 1273 protruding wires and combinations were labeled!

After a couple months of testing, I decided that for our use none of it was needed.  We change out batteries fast enough that overcharge will not be a problem.  The way the little PVs are set up seem to charge just fine, but it takes a very long time to get where the batteries will overcharge. Everything now is just a PV to a diode to the batteries.


The real reason I am here other than no phone, no fax, no email, no soldering iron...


The BIG ASS FISH!

My wife beat all 3 of us again. Thats twice in a row. Maybe I taught her too much about fishing?  

I am supposed to be the one with the biggest fish!

Maybe I didn't explain that to her?

My wife with a 46" Northern Pike, in a photo she really, REALLY hates.

And it was almost hard to keep Wall-Eye off the hooks.





Anyway...


We saved a lot of money on batteries. And weight too, as each person is only allowed 100 pounds of everything including food. And we did not spare the batteries. Sometimes I think she takes pictures just to see if the PVs will keep up!


The comfort of being clean after a warm shower is priceless.


Just a small example of how a few dollars in solar or RE can pay for itself in a short time.


Thanks to anyone with the patience and bandwidth to read all this.

Comments welcome,

G-

« Last Edit: August 21, 2005, 08:56:27 PM by (unknown) »
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ghurd

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2005, 03:58:47 PM »
All these photo were taken 100% on solar power.

Because so much testing charged all the batteries I have, there were no low batteries to start with.


The 'cabin out the airplane window' is on the lower end of land,

above the X in exit, and left of the highest part of the "handlebars".

The "15 to 20% shows in the photo" means from the photo from the airplane, not the photo at sunrise. It is a big lake!

We all got lost daily due to the large number of islands.


The lake, camp, or cabin is called "Little Benny'.

« Last Edit: August 21, 2005, 03:58:47 PM by ghurd »
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MelTx

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2005, 07:58:23 PM »


  I know yall had fun.I had fun seeing the pictures and reading about the trip.I about got my PV cell for AA batts on line.Camping is my favorite sport...MelTx
« Last Edit: August 21, 2005, 07:58:23 PM by MelTx »

georgeodjungle

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2005, 08:03:44 PM »
NICE...
« Last Edit: August 21, 2005, 08:03:44 PM by georgeodjungle »

hiker

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2005, 10:33:18 PM »
looks great...

it is nice to get away from it all........


<img
« Last Edit: August 21, 2005, 10:33:18 PM by hiker »
WILD in ALASKA

pyrocasto

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2005, 11:05:29 AM »
Totally Awesome!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2005, 11:05:29 AM by pyrocasto »

Experimental

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2005, 02:23:05 PM »
      Hey Gurd,

     I could look at this Kind of stuff all day and as a pilot, these are the kind of places, I always loved to go!!

     Now, I have to be happy with my little cabin near the Klamath river -- But I have managed to make more ammenities available!!

     Hot showers, are supplied by propane -- water by flow, from a 1300 gallon tank, about 20 feet above the cabin -- that filled by transport from a spring, down below in a valley, 200 gallons at a time !!

     65 watt PV on the roof, and a wind generator, for power -- so far, that is addaquate !!  ( but I,m conservative)

     For drinking, Water is filtered and boiled, then put in the fridge !

     Thankfully, the lake and river are within walking distance, and fishing is really good -- But nothing like those pike you have there!!

    FISHING, is a necessary part of life -- and not done, nearly often enough !!

    Thanks for shareing, Bill H......
« Last Edit: August 22, 2005, 02:23:05 PM by Experimental »

Sponge

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2005, 03:57:42 PM »
Amazing!


(Not something you can experience in this small country called The Netherlands!)

« Last Edit: August 22, 2005, 03:57:42 PM by Sponge »

nothing to lose

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2005, 04:48:36 PM »
Great post, thanks for taking the time for all that.

Glad you had so much fun on your adventure. I had as much fun at Picsters also, but I wasn't remote and having to survive like that, no real pics taken and he's already posted his stuff.


Glad the solar worked out so well for you. Yea, those little black bags can really put out the hot water in good sun can't they :)

A black barrel over head does the same thing, more water volume.


Well glad your back safe, though I bet you wish you could have stayed.

 I know it was hard for me to come home this year, and next year I will be somewhere again. Up there, New Foundland, or somewhere. 3 years of summer only then I may just not come home!  :)

« Last Edit: August 22, 2005, 04:48:36 PM by nothing to lose »

Bruce S

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2005, 07:24:19 AM »
Sponge;

   But you have the only area I've ever seen that has both New and Old style windmills, a kilometer long PV set along the highway and a Nuc power plant all in the same region.

Also a beautiful drive when heading up from Brussels.


Ghurd: Nice fish, beats the heck out of the catfish around here.

Do you have a picture of the pocket windmill you wrote about. I have a stepper motor similar to the one I sent to Norm  that I'd like to try on it.  


Bruce S

« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 07:24:19 AM by Bruce S »
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ghurd

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2005, 08:58:57 AM »
Hi Bruce


No pictures. Nothing really to take a picture of!

The mechanical was easy enough, but took some thinking.

Spent 6 months on it.

Never found a suitable stepper motor. :(


Remember that is was intended to have a life expectancy of about 7 to 10 days.


The 'whole thing' was to be a stepper motor on a 3/4" thick wood base with a couple holes and PVC/CPVC insert, a couple more inches of PVC/CPVC, hub, 3 or 4 or 6 blades of thinwall 4" PVC, and a couple screws.


The blades could be stacked when removed, and connected to the hub with a single screw each (raised center section on the hub held the blades straight and solid).


The mast or tower was to be a suitable branch, drywall screwed to the end of the dock, with the top whittled to fit the PVC insert in the steppers base. It didn't need to be high, as it would be out 50 feet in the lake and I expected the wind to usually run along the shore.


The tail was to fit in a 5/8 hole, held with a drywall screw like a shaft pin.

The tail was to be a 'Y' hotdog stick (if you know what I mean), with a bread bag, large ziplock, or something over it from the blade end, so the 'Y' part was in the bag and the long part went through a small hole in the bottom of the bag. A rock or 2 in the bag for balance if needed.


Maybe a little electricial tape here or there, but I doubt it would have needed it. except maybe later on the press fit hub to motor, or to hold the windside corners of the tail from flapping.


The weight limit was kind of tight to say the least, and the very best stepper I could come up with put out about 65ma at 12V max, and just a little more at 6V.  One of those little 12V PVs beat that, all 3 12V PVs with 1 hour of sun would make more power than 5 hours of STRONG wind, and all 8 little PVs probably weigh less than the pocket mill would have.


I learned a lot about PVC blades, stepper motors with no magnets, 3-phase DC motors (thats right!), single and 3-ph DC induction motors (thats right too!), and how the smaller it gets the harder everything becomes.


These lakes tend to have places where there are rapids or beaver dams with some good flow, if you don't mind charging AA batteries 5 miles from the cabin.

Maybe next time it'll be a try at stepper-hydro.  Hmmm. Plastic spoons in my future?

« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 08:58:57 AM by ghurd »
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ghurd

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2005, 09:01:43 AM »
Good to see the dog not looking like a porcupine!

Never been up there, but its on the list.

G-
« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 09:01:43 AM by ghurd »
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ghurd

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2005, 09:07:27 AM »
The cabins with running water are gravity fed from black plastic barrels.

Hot water is propane though.

G-
« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 09:07:27 AM by ghurd »
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ghurd

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2005, 09:42:48 AM »
I love flying in the little planes!  The big ones make me nervous. I like being able to see if the pilot is sleeping or whatever.  I want to learn to fly and get a seaplane, but thats past my budget. Besides, my wife gets pissed when they let me fly... I mean if they would let me fly, because I'm sure thats illegal... she says something about lack of training, crashing, stuff like that.


I spoke with the outfitter about PV solar a few years ago.  

He travels (a lot) and has seen it work in SE Asia, Central and South America, Europe... But has concerns over "What happens if the sun doesn't shine?".

I tried to explain it, but it didn't work. Wrote it off as language barrier at the time. But I realise now that I can't explain it to people without the language barrier either.


I figured a 40~50W PV, a CFL or 2, and a LED nightlight or 2, would save some propane. Or 80Ws of PV and add a DC water pump to the lights.

The gas water pump never used a full tank of gas for 4 people for the week. 3 to 5 minutes every other day fill the tanks.

Propane goes a long way, and I know people waste it by running a light all night and the water heater is ALWAYS turned up as far as it will go when we get there. Then the lights, stove, and 'fridge

Maybe the gas and propane savings would not be any, related to the overall and the way it gets used up there.

Gas and propane are flown in (not cheap), but if it only saves 20 pounds of propane and 5 gallons of gas it would not be noticable at the end of the year.

Just clicking a switch in the bathroom at 3AM could be a selling point.

G-

« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 09:42:48 AM by ghurd »
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ghurd

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2005, 10:08:33 AM »
Big fun!

A few things that may help your AA charger.

Go higher on the PV open voltage than what places try to sell you. Like 9V open for 6V or 4 AA.

Go for C/10 amps minimum. And maybe C/5 maximum so you don't need a controller, IMHO.

Adjust the PVs throughout the day for max sun. It's a huge increase in amps.

My 3 and 6V setups have 9V battery style snaps, for battery holders with 9V battery snaps.  So if the 2 AA stuff needed charging it could be done on the 6V setup while the 3V setup did another set.

Change out even slightly used batteries for full ones at every oportunity. I changed out batteries every night and lunch time. A few years ago, nobody wanted to tie up the solar because their batteries weren't dead yet. We ended up with 5 or 6 sets of dead batteries at the same time, with only 1 charger, and no sun. The only charged batteries were charging and full for 5 days, so all that solar just got dumped into the zeners while all the other batteries got lower and lower!!!
« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 10:08:33 AM by ghurd »
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Bruce S

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2005, 11:24:00 AM »
G-

  Thanks for the info. I now have a mental picture of what you where trying. I have some old 2 & 4 inch piping to give this a try.

First gotta reconfigure the "Pico" the plans are good the material isn't anywhere near what I expected to be....shoulda bought one from -ed.


Get understand your thinking about having it down at the dock. I saw a report somewhere about Amsterdam putting their 'mills out on the ocean as the water smoothes out the turbuelance and gives a better constant output.


I agree tho , the weight versus the PV is hard to beat, would always be a good backup if the sun hides though.


I have some questions about those other motor/gennies will put those in the Rants area.


Glad to hear your time was perfect ok near perfect there was that ditty about the size of the fish.; - ))


Bruce S

« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 11:24:00 AM by Bruce S »
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nothing to lose

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2005, 06:13:58 PM »
When I was visiting Picster we wnet to the cabin at the river, can't spell it won try.

There was a great shower there! Nice well built wood frame and wall shower with 2 30 or 55 gall barrels overhead. Had to run a genterator to run the pump, but it filled the barrels over head with the river water. Let the water sit awhile and nice warm shower, lots of water, gravity feed.

 Was a really nice.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2005, 06:13:58 PM by nothing to lose »

ghurd

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2005, 06:30:57 PM »
Something like this? This is on another lake.




G-

« Last Edit: August 25, 2005, 06:30:57 PM by ghurd »
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nothing to lose

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2005, 09:03:18 PM »
Same idea, built different, works good.

 I knew a guy in MO or AR (border) that used a barrel like that for hot water to his house. In the summer it actually got too hot he said and you had to becarefull to not burn yourself, and mix in cold water. In winter he shut it off  and used the wood stove to heat water I think. He's been gone about 5 years now, moved out west somewhere last I heard, anyway that's what he did as I recall.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2005, 09:03:18 PM by nothing to lose »

ghurd

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2005, 01:19:24 AM »
I remember another lake several years ago that had the water tower maybe 60 feet from the cabin.

The plumbing was above ground (meaning just laying on the ground) and black plastic pipe maybe 3/4 or 1".

There isn't a lot of ground cover or grass some places, so the pipe is exposed to the full sun.

The pressure and flow is not that high, so it takes a while for the water in the sun to get through the pipe.

Man. That got HOT!

Just 60 feet of black pipe laying in the sun.

Solar water heating in the summer is just not too diffucult!


There is a lot of money saving fast payback RE potential up there.

Mostly solar and hydro I think. Lots of sun and water in the summer.

and not many people use the area in the winter.

and fuel is expensive just to transport to the area.


I do remember an impressive PV array, maybe 600~800W, somewhere north east of the "Reserve Faunique La Verendrye". Right next to the road. Like 50 feet from the road!  I would have been very concerned about stones from the road breaking a PV, but every year they were all still there.  We take a different route now involving less road and more $$$ seaplane.

That is the only RE I recall past maybe 50~80W total.

And you know I really look for this stuff!

« Last Edit: August 26, 2005, 01:19:24 AM by ghurd »
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nothing to lose

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2005, 11:14:59 PM »
Yep, that black plastic pipe does get hot fast. Seems to hold up pretty well in the sun also and maybe not freeze enough to actaully break here in the mild south winters.


Plain GOOD quality water hose works well also. I have water hose here almost 10 years old that has been laying in the yard in the sun all year every year. Cost me close to $20 per 100' roll I think, but it has out lasted those cheapy ones that burst or rot in the sun. We are using this hose still today and most of it is still like new. Some places got cuts and such dragging it around the yard and had to be spliced. So anyway take some of this GOOD quality hose and run it back and forth over the roof a few times and... solar heat! No worries about busting it in the winter if standing water freezes solid in it either :)


Black plastic pipe heats faster and hotter no dought, I used it too for various things here.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2005, 11:14:59 PM by nothing to lose »

willib

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2005, 05:53:26 AM »
i havnt read all the coments yet ,but that looked like great fun. :-)

« Last Edit: December 13, 2005, 05:53:26 AM by willib »
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ghurd

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Re: Camping RE in Use
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2008, 07:34:26 PM »
And now we have been to Alaska.

Damn.  

Alaska is big.

Whales are big.

Glaciers are big.

G-
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 07:34:26 PM by ghurd »
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